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-   -   Vladimir Putin's Nuclear threat to the west (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131083)

Stanny 02-18-08 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus
As for AESA radars the Russians are ahead of Europe, christ we can't even get one in the Typhoon and Rafale.

I am afraid that you are watching russian Channel One and making wrong conclusions.I repeat,even people at russian message boards are very concerned about the fact,that Russian military has little success in chasing U.S. military.SSNs,5th generation fighters,AESA modernizations of the present fighter aircraft in service-that is all they are having constant problems with.Russians have developed Irbis-E AESA radar for SU-35 BM,but they still cannot launch it into mass production as they initially have troubles fitting it into the body of SU-35.That is your aforementioned "ahead" of all Europe.That is the lovely slogan of russian TV show "Strike Force" on Channel One-"has no analogues in the world".On serious russian military forums like Sukhoi or Balancer's Airbase people stopped thinking so a long time ago.There are even such discussions if ten Su-35BMs could possibly kill one F-22.You see,USAF is in 5th generation with their F-22 and F-35 already while the rest of the world is just in 4++,and Rafale with Typhoon are not an exception.

Quote:

Quoting wikipedia as a primary source isn't the best IMO.
Well,people who fill Wikipedia in do it primarily from Global Security and FAS sources.

Quote:

but to say all other places are in extreme poverty is a joke.
It is not a joke but severe reality.My observations are based on stories that people who go to Russia on vacation/visiting relatives tell.People are returning frightened and shocked from there.Harshness and inmodesty are everywhere in the life of Russia.Insulting people is a normal example of behaviour for any local russian official in any russian government institution.Why does russian police carry AK-74 assault rifles on regular basis daily?Is that a standard issue weapon and why does police need such weapons?Is ordinary pistol not enough for maintaining order and enforcing law?In Lithuania,for example,policemen carry just Glock-17s and nothing else.I think it is just a normal policy for russian authorities to demonstrate the official power to their citizens and keep them controllable.

XabbaRus 02-18-08 02:59 PM

Ha, the Americans could down an F-22 with 10 F-15's so it isn't a unique russian problem.

And no I haven't been watching channel 1 I have been reading various reports on the internet. The euros are having as many problems with their AESA. Why haven't they put it in the Typhoon yet? Same with the French Rafale, the RB2 isn't ready either.

And the last time I was in Moscow last year in fact I didn't see the Russian police regularly running around with AK-47s either, in fact most were unarmed.

Also having travelled round Russia I saw poverty but not extreme poverty in every city.

And insulting behaviour from officials in Russia, again not a uniquely Russian problem, get it just as often when dealing with bureaucrats in the UK. See there are several types of Russians I have met in the UK. Normal ones who can see the faults of their country but are still proud to be Russian, those who blindly think Russia is the best thing since sliced bread (which is of course daft) and then the self hating Russians who are ashamed to be Russian and will slag off their country to anyone who will listen. They are the ones who seem to get the attention over here.

You never explained what you meant by extreme poverty.

Stanny 02-18-08 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus
You never explained what you meant by extreme poverty.

I will say again,Russia and all countries of ex-Soviet Zone more or less are lacking the middle class segment of society.Middle class term is used to describe people who gain normal (medium) profits.Those people who do not drive Bugatti Veyron but do not feel the lack of money for all necessary things in everyday life (healthcare,higher education,real estate).That are the people,whom you will normally see forming the biggest part of population in older EU countries and U.S.A.

Where have you been to Russia?Were you visiting little towns or villages in Siberia?Most of the russians live there.

I understand that Moscow is all shining with Rolex watches and Ferrari cars,and these toys bought for oil money do impress,but Moscow is not the Russia.Even russians think so.

sergbuto 02-18-08 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradclark1
They do have a point and plus it would turn into an Islamic state which terrorists would base out of. Thats my take on it anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips
I dont think it'll be Russia, should something spark off. Its more likely to be a rogue state with illegally manufactured or purchased nuclear weapons if anything. And they wont missile it, they'll smuggle it somewhere and detonate on the ground.

Makes you think about many suicide bombings. What if those bombs were dirty bombs? :-?

I wish US administration had the same thoughts as you guys. Unfortunately, even the Sept.11 tragedy, which clearly showed where the real danger comes from, did not straighten their priorities.

One thing is to fight for profits of a few very rich American people/companies in the sphere of Russian economic interests, another thing is to really expect, seriously discuss and take measures against the threat of a nuclear war from a slavic country with capitalistic-jungle economy (not even commies any more) while the islamic/muslim origin of the threat was clearly indicated by the Sept.11 attack.

They should leave it to Baltic countries, Ukraine and Georgia worry about the Russian military threat because those counties need that to justify their presence in EU to get their piece of the pie. :)

Stanny 02-19-08 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergbuto
They should leave it to Baltic countries, Ukraine and Georgia worry about the Russian military threat because those counties need that to justify their presence in EU to get their piece of the pie. :)

Do you think so for real?Why are we so different from let's say Denmark or Holland?If Denmark and Holland deserve to be in EU why we do not?Can you explain this?

You may have a totally different opion watching from Sweden,that has been neutral in the World War II and happily built an advanced model of capital socialism afterwards.But we live here and we have our own point of view,inspired by our experience throughout the biggest part of XX century.

XabbaRus 02-19-08 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanny
Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus
You never explained what you meant by extreme poverty.

I will say again,Russia and all countries of ex-Soviet Zone more or less are lacking the middle class segment of society.Middle class term is used to describe people who gain normal (medium) profits.Those people who do not drive Bugatti Veyron but do not feel the lack of money for all necessary things in everyday life (healthcare,higher education,real estate).That are the people,whom you will normally see forming the biggest part of population in older EU countries and U.S.A.

Where have you been to Russia?Were you visiting little towns or villages in Siberia?Most of the russians live there.

I understand that Moscow is all shining with Rolex watches and Ferrari cars,and these toys bought for oil money do impress,but Moscow is not the Russia.Even russians think so.

No need to say again, as that didn't answer my question, I know Russia lacks a large middle class but it is growing.

As a matter of fact I did live in Siberia for 9 months, Tomsk to be exact.

Also lived in Voronezh (1996) aswell as St Petersburg (1997) and Moscow 3 years.

During my time there I visited Pskov, Gelendzhik, Novorossisk, various towns around Moscow so I have travelled quite a lot there and since it was by trains passed through some grim towns for sure, but to say extreme poverty isn't accurate for all other places in Russia outside of Moscow, Petersburg and Yekaterinburg.

So again specify extreme poverty. eg, lack of access to clean water, house, heating, food etc...ie bin raking to find food as the norm, begging as the norm.

Skybird 02-19-08 04:35 AM

Petersburg would be a city I would be interested to visit for a day, or two. much beauty, I got the impression on TV, but I assume: also much shadow offsides the obvious hot spots.

XabbaRus 02-19-08 05:40 AM

Hotspots? What do you mean?
It is a beautiful city, if only I had the photos, but my ex-girlfried took them.

I felt prefectly safe there, more so than London.

Skybird 02-19-08 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus
Hotspots? What do you mean?
It is a beautiful city, if only I had the photos, but my ex-girlfried took them.

I felt prefectly safe there, more so than London.

Howowoh, stay cool, man, I never was there, just saw film material on TV. Think it is a nice city, but I do not know if that is true for all the city, or just the city centre, and to what degree it has been restaurated and worked over since the USSR fell, and when I said "hotspots" I only meant that maybe there are other sections that look less beautiful. I don't know! Cities like Heidelberg, Lübeck, Munich etc also are famous for their beautiful sections, but they also have less impressive, ugly places to offer, usually at the outskirts of the cities, or factory zones. If that is not true for Petersburg , and in fact ALL of the city looks as good as what I saw in pictures and films - the better!

Stanny 02-19-08 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus
So again specify extreme poverty. eg, lack of access to clean water, house, heating, food etc...ie bin raking to find food as the norm, begging as the norm.

Are you the citizen of U.K.?Attitude towards people with burgundy passport may differ from those who are Russian citizens.

Personally,I do not understand your greatest love in Russia.It sounds for me like you are getting attracted by some kind of exotic.How do you like the Moscow three day registration rule?How do you like the need to carry your passport with registration mark along all the time in order not to get in jail for three days?Do you like all this? :o

By no means I will ever go to Russia,unless it is absolutely necessary.Because it is really dangerous country,where human,his life and civil rights mean nothing both to the citizens and official authorities.

Dmitry Markov 02-19-08 07:34 AM

I live in Moscow, but my wife and I like to visit Petersburg couple times a year on weekends. My impressions of center parts of the city are that it was not built to live in - it was built as a showcase. So it has some phantasmagoric ghostly appearance - lines of sidestreets with faded colors of the houses where no life seem to dwell (especially strong these feelings are when walking the streets in early morning - about 5 to 7 o'clock). But the palaces, cathedrals, museums on the contrary look more alive than common houses. It gets into the eye that Petersburg was built for them - and they are the truly inhabitants of the central parts of the city. Suburbs look more like the normal city - you can see that people came there to live and work, but the center... Sometimes I think that palaces and official buildings where built first and after that some will have brought citizens, houses and so on to be the background of the first ones.
Nevertheless I do like the city indeed - walking the streets in the night and in early morning, sitting in multiple cafes, visiting museums and suburban parks - Tzarskoe Selo and Pavlovsk and so on...

XabbaRus 02-19-08 08:08 AM

Yes I am a UK citizen and the registration process doesn't bother me, it is one of the rules and technically you don't need to carry your passport with you and you won't end up in pirson for 3 days if you don't.

So I like russia for many reasons and happen to know many Russians from many walks of life.

Still you haven't answered my question. You seem to just dislike Russia for reason of prejudice. You haven't been to Russia. It is not a really dangerous country I can think of many worse.

Stanny 02-19-08 09:08 AM

Russian reality
 
Kind policeman and old woman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lJjbAiwok0

Watch the end of the movie,also very kind policemen (it is Belarus,but Russia does not differ much):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1QZSzAIDeM

Typical russian block house:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSH2fsso6r0

Wealthy citizens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpYOIcz_n4o

Wealthy citizens again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h25tnEMu1fE

Two russian friends:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHmjeQnf4qk

Another wealthy russian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tW6z...eature=related

Finally,the real combat brotherhood in the army that threatens the whole world:

http://video.mail.ru/mail/s.o.s.-07/40/140.html

XabbaRus 02-19-08 09:36 AM

Really I find your use of youtube to demonstrate the realities of Russia quite telling.
I've lived there, have Russian friends, been to many Russian places and have a Russian wife.

You have your mind set on one idea only and nothing will change it.

Stanny 02-19-08 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus
You have your mind set on one idea only and nothing will change it.

My friend,I was born in the Soviet Union during the rule of Leonid Brezhnev.I was still a child but I do remember quite a lot of things.IL-76s cargos loaded up with ammunition departing for Afghanistan in 1987,empty shelves in the shops,events of 1991,withdrawal of Soviet Army from Lithuania,economic crisis of mid 1990s,huge levels of crime and so on up to Lithuania's integration into European Union and NATO.

We are crawling towards western standard of living,like you have in your native Aberdeen,and you advice us to look back for Russia.We who lived all our lives under Russia know what Russia really is.And it is quite enough of Russia for us,believe me.

Why do you live in Aberdeen then?You should go and become a permanent russian resident,apply for Russian Citizenship.You should forget your native Britain and stay in Russia forever.Only then you will clearly understand whether you want russian way of living or not.

Quote:

and have a Russian wife
I believe in love for ages and other romantic things like that but...there are very little russian girls and women who do not dream of getting married with foreigner,especially one carrying the U.S.,or U.K. passport. :D

By no means I am trying to tell that Russia is something absolutely terrible.No way.But I know the real situation as we are all here from the former Soviet Union.


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