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-   -   9 Dead in Omaha Shooting (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126357)

The WosMan 12-07-07 05:15 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315563,00.html

Quote:

Media Coverage of Mall Shooting Fails to Reveal Mall's Gun-Free-Zone Status

Thursday, December 06, 2007
By John R. Lott, Jr.

The horrible tragedy at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Neb. received a lot of attention Wednesday and Thursday. It should have. Eight people were killed, and five were wounded.
A Google news search using the phrase "Omaha Mall Shooting" finds an incredible 2,794 news stories worldwide for the last day. From India and Taiwan to Britain and Austria, there are probably few people in the world who haven’t heard about this tragedy.
But despite the massive news coverage, none of the media coverage, at least by 10 a.m. Thursday, mentioned this central fact: Yet another attack occurred in a gun-free zone.
Surely, with all the reporters who appear at these crime scenes and seemingly interview virtually everyone there, why didn’t one simply mention the signs that ban guns from the premises?
Nebraska allows people to carry permitted concealed handguns, but it allows property owners, such as the Westroads Mall, to post signs banning permit holders from legally carrying guns on their property.
/**/
The same was true for the attack at the Trolley Square Mall in Utah in February (a copy of the sign at the mall can be seen here). But again the media coverage ignored this fact. Possibly the ban there was even more noteworthy because the off-duty police officer who stopped the attack fortunately violated the ban by taking his gun in with him when he went shopping.
Yet even then, the officer "was at the opposite end and on a different floor of the convoluted Trolley Square complex when the shooting began. By the time he became aware of the shooting and managed to track down and confront Talovic [the killer], three minutes had elapsed."
There are plenty of cases every year where permit holders stop what would have been multiple victim shootings every year, but they rarely receive any news coverage. Take a case this year in Memphis, where WBIR-TV reported a gunman started "firing a pistol beside a busy city street" and was stopped by two permit holders before anyone was harmed.
When will part of the media coverage on these multiple-victim public shootings be whether guns were banned where the attack occurred? While the media has begun to cover whether teachers can have guns at school or the almost 8,000 college students across the country who protested gun-free zones on their campuses, the media haven’t started checking what are the rules where these attacks occur.
Surely, the news stories carry detailed information on the weapon used (in this case, a rifle) and the number of ammunition clips (apparently, two). But if these aspects of the story are deemed important for understanding what happened, why isn’t it also important that the attack occurred where guns were banned? Isn’t it important to know why all the victims were disarmed?
Few know that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, closely was following Colorado legislation that would have allowed citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Klebold strongly opposed the legislation and openly talked about it.
No wonder, as the bill being debated would have allowed permitted guns to be carried on school property. It is quite a coincidence that he attacked the Columbine High School the very day the legislature was scheduled to vote on the bill.
Despite the lack of news coverage, people are beginning to notice what research has shown for years: Multiple-victim public shootings keep occurring in places where guns already are banned. Forty states have broad right-to-carry laws, but even within these states it is the "gun-free zones," not other public places, where the attacks happen.
People know the list: Virginia Tech saw 32 murdered earlier this year; the Columbine High School shooting left 13 murdered in 1999; Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, had 23 who were fatally shot by a deranged man in 1991; and a McDonald's in Southern California had 21 people shot dead by an unemployed security guard in 1984.
All these attacks — indeed, all attacks involving more than a small number of people being killed — happened in gun-free zones.
In recent years, similar attacks have occurred across the world, including in Australia, France, Germany and Britain. Do all these countries lack enough gun-control laws? Hardly. The reverse is more accurate.
The law-abiding, not criminals, are obeying the rules. Disarming the victims simply means that the killers have less to fear. As Wednesday's attack demonstrated yet again, police are important, but they almost always arrive at the crime scene after the crime has occurred.
The longer it takes for someone to arrive on the scene with a gun, the more people who will be harmed by such an attack.
Most people understand that guns deter criminals. If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? But that is what the Westroads Mall did.

SUBMAN1 12-07-07 05:22 PM

I posted about this a few posts back. Last shooting incident we had - same thing. The whacko picked a gun free zone - The University Campus!!!


Is anyone starting to see the big picture yet?


-S

Letum 12-07-07 05:40 PM

Allways good to hear from Mary!

Ducimus 12-07-07 09:20 PM

I love the pictures of this kid, and excerpts from his suicide note:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/07/mal...ter/index.html

Looks like an AK to me. I just wonder how does a 19 year old kid aquire one.

12-07-07 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus
Looks like an AK to me. I just wonder how does a 19 year old kid aquire one.

Looking like an AK is not the same as being an AK 47. Plenty of knock-offs out there. Most, if not all in the US are semi-auto. Reports indicated that the rifle was stolen.

August 12-07-07 09:53 PM

Quote:

I can't take this meaningless existence anymore
Maybe, just maybe, a little religion would have prevented this tragedy...

antikristuseke 12-07-07 10:02 PM

Looks like an SKS to me, besides from that angle the AK and SKS look pretty ****ing interchangably similar

for refrence SKS
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl01-e.htm

and AK models
47 and AKM http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as01-e.htm
AKM 74 http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as02-e.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by August
Maybe, just maybe, a little religion would have prevented this tragedy...

I very seriously doubt that
EDIT:For instance, looking at my own country, I dont recall something like this ever happening here and according to a recent survey estonia is the most atheistic country in the EU.

12-07-07 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August
Quote:

I can't take this meaningless existence anymore
Maybe, just maybe, a little religion would have prevented this tragedy...

Agreed.
Perhaps his meaningless existence wouldn't have been so meaningless, if he'd had someting other than himself to believe in.

Ducimus 12-07-07 10:32 PM

As much as i hate having religion ramrodded down my throat, i do acknowledge that there are some people in the world, who need that "crutch" for want of a better term. I know it sounds deragotry, not my intent, i just don't know how else to say it. Would it have helped? Maybe. For some people it does. Ive always felt that people should be allowed to beleive what they want, if it helps them cope, so much the better.

Sea Demon 12-07-07 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus
As much as i hate having religion ramrodded down my throat, i do acknowledge that there are some people in the world, who need that "crutch" for want of a better term. I know it sounds deragotry, not my intent, i just don't know how else to say it. Would it have helped? Maybe. For some people it does. Ive always felt that people should be allowed to beleive what they want, if it helps them cope, so much the better.

hmm...Some of us don't consider religion a "crutch" as you say. But I do agree that people should be allowed to believe what they want. And as far as I know, that's pretty much the way it is. If only there wasn't such a push against, and irrational fear of people's religious convictions. :hmm:

Ducimus 12-07-07 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

hmm...Some of us don't consider religion a "crutch" as you say. But I do agree that people should be allowed to believe what they want. And as far as I know, that's pretty much the way it is. If only there wasn't such a push against, and irrational fear of people's religious convictions. :hmm:

Im in an objective frame of mind, so please bear no offense here.

RE crutch:
Personally, i will neither confirm, nor deny the existance of God. It's just a concept that exists. I know that someday i will die, and i also know that facing my death (in whatever form it may come in), will be alot easier if i think that once it passes, ill be going to a better place. Does this thought help me accept death? Sure it does. Death would be alot harsher to face, if i knew for certain that this was IT, and once its over with, thats all there ever will be. Do i reallly need to know the truth in this? Not really. Once im dead, what will be, will be, but accepting it comes alot easier.

RE Push/fear against religion.

Theres an old saying. "the quickest way to make an enemy of someone, is to try and change them". This is what makes organized religion different from other forms of belif. Its insistant need to convert people. WHat a person beleives in, is core to their center being. What they beleive in, becomes part of who they are. To try and change this belief? They will push back. This is, why i think religion is having issues.

August 12-07-07 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus
Once im dead, what will be, will be, but accepting it comes alot easier.

This young man committed this terrible crime because to him fame, bad or good, was the only thing that transcended his sad existance. Now a basic tenant of religion is that ones actions in this life will affect the next, so the desire for fame is at least tempered by the concept of spending eternity in hell for the wrong kind.

12-07-07 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus
This is what makes organized religion different from other forms of belif. Its insistant need to convert people. WHat a person beleives in, is core to their center being. What they beleive in, becomes part of who they are. To try and change this belief? They will push back. This is, why i think religion is having issues.

I have never been forced to change my beliefs by any religious organization. Have you? Everyone has a choice. Bear in mind that some religions call on their faithful to spread the faith. It doesn't mean that that religion or its faithful are evil. I'm pretty sure they don't want to convert anyone who doesn't feel God in their heart.

No one can force any belief on a free man.

Ducimus 12-08-07 12:00 AM

>>I have never been forced to change my beliefs by any religious organization. Have you?

Yup. Well, they tried, but didnt succeed. Im not discussing that subject any further because thats not what this topic is about. Nor do i really care to discuss incidents that occured when growing up.

12-08-07 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus
>>I have never been forced to change my beliefs by any religious organization. Have you?

Yup. Well, they tried, but didnt succeed. Im not discussing that subject any further because thats not what this topic is about. Nor do i really care to discuss incidents that occured when growing up.

By your own admission you didn't change. So as I stated you were not forced to change your beliefs.


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