BTW, I'll admit "clueless" was a bit overstated ;)

Still, given the viewership, I think that they should have stuck to a more narrow narrative, or at least made it clear that while the IJN might have wished such an invasion to be possible, it was very likely completely beyond their grasp to attempt, regardless of the outcome of the Midway battle. I think that the show's failure was in trying to edit down something complex into a sound bite. Literally a word or two could have corrected the issue IMO.

An interesting discussion.

<S> Skyhawk

tater

Cool Beans
 

This thread is kick @$$. Many times I look at these threads and really appreciate the knowlege and numerous facts that are posted around here. I sure learn alot in the process. I just wanted to say thanks, not only to this thread but everyone. Everyone has there own areas of passion and interest. Mine being Steam Propulsion, women:rock: ,for the reactivation of our battleships, and other stuff. So thank you and keep posting!

Right on SteminDemon13.

When a discussion proves to be the catalyst for learning, well that is as good as it gets in my book. Whether one is on the "right" or "wrong" side of the discussion becomes irrelevant in the end, what everyone gains from the discussion is the most important thing. There are many such discussions that have taken place in this forum and for all of them I too am grateful. Was a real privilege to have a part in this one.

"tater", my personal thanks to you again for challenging what was in the program in the first place, it was the spark to a better understanding of some of the events that took place in the WWII Pacific Theater for many of us. The longest journey begins with a single step, thanks for compelling us to dust off the gears and get the wheels turning up in our brain-housings. :D

My appreciation as well for having been introduced to "Shattered Sword". It was one of the best books I've read in a long time. Not only due to it's factual content, but because of the way it challenges the reader to reconsider many common fallacies regarding the Battle of Midway.

Best regards and happy hunting!

"Skyhawk"

BTW, a few great books that I know Tully and Parshall also like regarding the IJN and or early war:

Kaigun (Evans and Peatie) (history of the IJN to the eve of the war)

Sunburst (Peatie) (history of IJN aviation to the eve of the war)

Empires in the Balance (Willmott) (pre-war planning and wartime execution of the early war until April, 1942. Covers all sides, excellent book.)

The First Team and The First Team: Guadalcanal (Lundstrom) (USN aviation. Detailed unit histories, practically talks about every single flight that left US CV flight decks down to daily CAPs in the middle of nowhere.)

All are exceptional books.

tater

Man, that's great to hear. I had just ordered this one the other day. :rock:

One of the most common Midway errors is the notion that the flight decks of Kaga, Akagi, Soryu, and Hiryu were crammed with aircraft when the SBDs pushed over.

That's completely untrue. The CVs had been conducting TO and landing ops for their CAPs within minutes of the dive bombing attacks, and it took them longer than that to spot a strike from the hanger to the flight deck. IJN doctrine was to rearm, refuel, and warm up planes BELOW, unlike the USN that did everything on the flight deck and reserved the hanger mostly for maintenance and spare planes.

So the IJN CVs were indeed rearming the planes, but they were crammed in the hanger spaces below the flight deck. This exacerbated the problem of bombs going off because the fuel, etc was confined.

tater

Thanks for the reading material references "tater". When the kids are home for Thanksgiving and start on me with "What do you want for Christmas Dad?", I will have a list ready for them. :up:

In my amazon searches for "Shattered Sword" I did come across a couple of the books you mention (along with many others). Same here for me as with "mookiemookie", it's nice to get a thumbs up before making the effort (or putting out the money) to get your hands on some of them. There are so many out there that sometimes it's hard to "pick the flysh*t out of the pepper" if you know what I mean. ;)

"mookiemookie", "Shattered Sword" is a slow read (in a good way) if you take the time necessary to really absorb all the information and ideas it covers. All the photos, diagrams, and illustrations really help to round out the presentation of the material. As I read about the various Japanese leaders and looked at their photos, it really seemed for the first time as if I was getting inside their heads and really "getting to know" them. This is just one facet of this book that sets it apart from others imho. :yep:

Best regards gents,

"Skyhawk"

Lundstrom's books are rather slow reading as well, but the detail...

One thing I really appreciated about the First Team books was that he bothered to go into detail about guys that didn't make it who weren't "war heros" (meaning in the press, etc). You'll get an account of a guy, a little about him, and the fact that his F4F lost power taking off for routine CAP far from the enemy, his plane went in, and he couldn't get out before it sank. Maybe he never saw a Zero, never saw any combat, but he was there, doing his dangerous job (combat or not, still dangerous), and would otherwise have been forgotten by all but his family. Same for other pilots who did make it, but didn't rack up kills.

Puts a little different spin on "routine" operations.

Also, he finds out who the F4F drivers actually attacked. Not just that Butch O'Hare attacked G4Ms, but who piloted each one, even the flight crew names, sometimes pictures. Damn impressive work.

When in doubt, buy anything that has "Naval Institute Press" on the spine :up:

tater