Mars. SH5 should be on Mars. With robots. Lots of tiny, tiny robots.

Hmmm, this is all getting very off subject isn't it. Perhaps we should start a thread called "The moralities of conflict between nations throughout history"?

I will have my say though. As for the "just doing their jobs" nonsense? Do you mean that in all conflicts throughout history the participants on both sides have actually wanted to kick the crap out of each other for no reason other than their political beliefs and that there is no sense of self preservation or desire to protect your home, your family and your friends from destruction?

As for giddy? Well I think that you will find that national pride takes a very firm grasp of the population at times. I've seen the euphoria that sweeps a nation during the (football) world cup when there are national flags hanging from every house and car. I can clearly remember as a youngster the press and television coverage of a war that was taking place thousand of miles away on sovereign soil, where everyone I knew wanted every one of the enemy dead although we had no understanding of what was happening.

Hmmm, how about creating as much false propaganda and raising the levels of terror within the very heart of your nation that they will back you to the hilt in a war that has been manufactured as a means to secure a future supply of oil? That's another evil administration if you ask me (no names, no names).

War is hell and in a "them or us" situation I think you will find that everyone will chose the "them" option regardless of the sanity or soundness of the politics of themselves or their leaders and regardless of whether they believe in or want to become involved in the situation.

And here's another quote "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter". It all depends on what side of the fence you are sitting on and whether you have the balls to climb over the fence and shake hands.

Ancient Times, Greeks vs Romans, wooden subs, rowed by slaves, sails, ramming speed, mythical undersea monsters that can eat your sub whole.........

If someone actually believed that their leadership was EVIL and didn't fight it (and I do mean fight, as in take up arms), they might as well shut up about it. Put up, or shut up.

Faced with real evil, that's the choice. Protests, rock concerts and puppet shows? No. It's either worth actually fighting, or it isn't actually evil to you, you just disagree with it.

The rationale behind why they might be giddy doesn't matter. During that time they were. They were happy, and they supported it. They also damn well knew that a substantial percentage of their neighbors back home were being disappeared. My friend's mom grew up in Austria during the war. She said they knew that the people in those trains that went by where she lived were not coming back---and she was a kid. Another friend's mom was a kid in Belgium during the war (her mom made the poor choice of deciding to have her 2d kid back in the old country in the early spring of 1940). She said they knew what was going on (she was a teenager by the end of the war). She helped treat allied soldiers, actually.


<S>

I hate moral relativism and people who lack a moral compass. Just lump it all into one. Makes it easy, doesn't it, in that you don't have to take sides and can never be wrong. And even gassing millions of innocent people will look much less bad all of a sudden. And it's all Bush's fault, we know already...:roll:

If you want to understand what kept the Nazis in power back then, just take a look at the rabid Anti-Americanism in most of Europe which is devoid of all reason and you get an idea of mass hysteria. And spare both of us the spiel that it's just about Bush. It's getting old.

Also, Hitler himself made his intentions pretty clear several times, including before he was in power. Complete abolishment of all parties in the Reichstag and the extermination of the Jewish race in Europe.
Seems like that was not an issue for most people as long as they got a job for it. Talk about wrong priorities. Well, no one told them about what else they would get - they thought it would just hit the Jews. If those evil British and Americans hadn't started throwing fire from the sky, all could have been so nice really!

And please send your answers to :

Where the hell did he get Bush from in that quote?
c/o The Democratic Party
Somewhere
USA.

This whole "how moralistic are you" discussion is getting too off topic. If you want to continue to discuss the matter I welcome you:-

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...793#post554793

Atlantic most defintly.

THe SH 4 engine is amazeing, Ive never played a game that looks like a moveing Oil Painting, its amazeing.

SH 3 is still the better GAME in my opinion with GWX but Sh 4 is unique too.

Atlantic + SH 4 engine = win.

Shame on you. You forgot silent: tiny, silent robots.

I would like to see modern subs this time, trouble is if they do a modern sub sim it would probably be like Dangerous Waters a bit difficult in the learning process, which might put of a lot of ww2 silent hunter players. You think manual targetting world war two subs is tricky, well welcome to the modern subsim! If they can make the game still realistic but not the 500page manual 6 months later finally figured out sonar/targetting gameplay then it could be a success.

A game comes to mind "Fast attack" was just right, not hard yet felt realistic enough - except for the silly 2hr mission limit.