Ishmarel wrote-

"So my question to my conservative friends still stands. After all of the demonstrable lies, falsehoods, misjudgements & incompetence of these guys, how can you believe anything they say?"

Quote-

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security
threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to
the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has . chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of St ate, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept.. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam H ussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003





Yours, Mike

;)

That would make a super advertisment for someone's campaign MadMike ...

Thanks

Just a brief aside, during a live-chat at the Post with the author of the article and book, linked above, on the Niger forgery I did get in a question about Ledeen and he seemed to think those connections couldn't be proven. Though he did say he quoted Ledeen at length about it in his book. I haven't read it yet but could be worth checking out for those interested in this angle of the story.

In every other respect what he has to say is pretty damning so if he thinks the charges against Ledeen don't hold up I tend to believe him.

But who moved on a f#@k up? Being stupid doesn't make you right. Feeding the houses made up intel will get you what you want.

Also, Tenet is now having his say in a new book. I have trouble imagining who on any side of this debate will see the guy in a sympathetic light though.

Relevant snippet from the story in the NYT today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/wa...nted=1&_r=2&hp

Here's a pretty devastating analysis from the Armed Forces Journal on the failure of the General officer corps vis-a-vis Iraq with recommendations for corrections.

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2007/05/2635198

It's never a good idea to get the CIA against you.

Basically the White House has implied the CIA was incompetent.

Don't mess with the bureaucrats.

No wonder they can't go after this guy. The more I read up on him, the more I realize my government is either lying, or ignoring the problem.

http://www.davegaubatz.com/index.html
http://www.davegaubatz.com/sitebuild...al-775x487.jpg


davegaubatz@gmail.com
The Children are the ones who suffer in wartime

After reviewing his bio, awards, and whatnot, don't see anything above and beyond what any intel or specops troop does.

Yours, Mike

Down the memory hole alert: Tenet of yesteryear.
What does this have to do with the issue of WMDs, which is the topic of this thread?

Good reading! Add to the internal failure of the military to change old, no-longer valid paradigms the massive incompetent influencing from outside, namely Rumfsfeld, and you have what you got today.

A good summary of what is and isn't know, what's been said and what hasn't, can be found in this article:

Don't Be So Sure There Were No WMD in Iraq.