City of Heroes MMO.... :shifty:

Heck even in Star Trek they had these, no matter the technology, no matter what, theres always gonna be something screwed up out of port, like them forgetting to install an engine in a sub.

There is another possibility that you negelected to mention.

Some people have perspective, patience and faith.

Please try to show a little more respect for people who may have a different approach to matters than you do.

JCC

Then don't talk about it. That's probably what they want. :P

And what is Silent Hunter 3 or Ubisoft? Not mass published or high-budgeted? Try telling that to them or any of the stores that sell their products. As for the others: Bohemia Interactive is a small team out in Czech Republic and they seem to be doing ok with patching and support internationally. Oleg Maddox is one person he seems to be handling fine under the same publisher. It doesn't take many people to finish games or patch simple fixes after a release. Captain America fixed the instrument bugs using his limited techniques in modding. (He didn't require a mass budget or publisher)

As for Falcon the publisher did abandon the game and like you said some of the developers did not. That is why the game continued to survive which is exactly my point.

Falcon is an example of people still trying to get a hold of copies of the original game off ebay just so they can play the modded versions. Its the only game I know of that has became more popular after it was modded than when it was sold in stores. (I'm not sure what Silent Hunter 3 would have against this if they would just support further modding with an SDK) I'm sure if Lead Pursuit sold original copies of Falcon 4.0 they could sell those as much as Allied Force just because of the interest in the current mods for it.

Developers don't patch and support games based on sales figures. They patch and support based on if they are willing to. This may be a business model for SH3 but, it isn't for other titles. I find it to be a bad business model especially from a company that depends on sales of its future titles. If SH4 doesn't sell then SH3 will be to blame. Let them learn from it.

Also, if Silent Hunter III's sales were so vicious then, why are they coming out with a 4th one? They need to stop making submarine sims if noone is buying them. I doubt switching submarine from the Atlantic to the Pacific is going to help if they are stuck in such a vicious cycle and can't get out.

Someone is to blame. Is it Ubisoft? because Oleg Maddox seems to have no problem supporting his games under the same publisher.

Silent Hunter 3 only became functional after RUB 1.45 was released not 1.4b. Many people left in frustration before then. That is why RUB 1.45 was a base for every supermod that has been made since. The developers could have patched problems like the misaligned and improper readings on gauges. SH3 is a simulator and you NEED things like gauges on a submarine. Its not like a plane where you can just see where you are. Its not a complicated F-16 either. Its a Uboat that consists of very few buttons, gauges, and dials. Not too much that can go wrong from a development standpoint (compared to other titles). These aren't drastic changes that will pull resources away from other games. They are minor fixes that were given up on completely.

Explain your post....

I would like to know your perspective if it applies to the discussion. But, so far it hasn't explained much.

Yeah, I dont get that either.

BTW, that list contains several of my favourite games. S:HoWW2 is the most underrated and unnoticed gem ever!

I beta tested H&D 2, internal beta test.

Do you know how many days/evenings I sat just testing how different weapons worked in different vehicles when shot in motion (MP) and that the amount of bullets in the clips was right toward the amount of shots and that the numbers of bullets left in clip was right towards that amount of shot you did and then that the numbers shown on screen of bullets left in clip was right??????

I'd say something but after reading the "SH4 Bug Thread", I'm just soooo disappointed, the patch will have to be HUGE!:cry:
Realistically, knowing all of these problems, who would call paying AU $100 for SH4 a wise decision!:-?

Anyone ever stop to consider that the future of sub sim games is riding on SH4? If comments in this forum turn people away from buying it and if the cooler heads fail to prevail,than SH4 could very well be the last of the series.

I did beta testing (and board moderating) for Starfleet Command:Orion Pirates and Starfleet Command 3 and I still maintain to this day that the negativity and basic ranting in the boards about both games (especially by the Star Fleet Battles crowd) led to their poor sales. None of which I or the majority of the testers felt was warrented.

Having been a beta tester gives me different perspective towards bugs in SH4. I have yet to read about an actual show stopping bug. FSAA is simply a personal preference thing that I doubt most casual gamers are going to care about all that much. Those that complain how the game looks on a 20-24 inch monitor need to stop and consider that they are in a small minority. The majority of pc users have 17 inch monitors,so obviously that's what SH4 is going to be set to run on.

As for the other bugs,they certainly sound fixable. Course it may take time since they have to make sure the fixes didn't break anything new. (Which was our main job when beta testing patches...making sure the code fixes didn't introduce new problems).

I have no doubts at all that it will only take a few patches to make SH4 into a true winner...if the sales actually warrent putting out the time and money to create the needed patches.

I actually kind of like bugs. Not having them, but seeing a game go through the patching progress kind of makes you appreciate the game more when you've got the final version. Also many modding communities are formed by people hoping to eliminate bugs, and it's how they begin to get familiar with the game. I was there. At one point I was called a fanboy because I said punching Todd Howard (the creator od TES and a producer) in the face would be an extreme raction. In all fairness, the guy might have been joking, but with the way people were acting...


I thought Oblivion was a fine game, to have it said, even if it was a little shorter lived than Morrowind.

Also, am I the only one here that actually plays console games? The majority of them have bugs, even the occasional show stopper. Super Swing Golf froze up on me just the other day. Even though they publish for a standardized console that doesn't change between users they still have problems. One of the reasons I love Nintendo is that they are the only console publisher ever that I've never seen a bug from. Hell, my cousin's PS3 more or less exploded less than a month ago, and even Sony couldn't tell him why.
And to use the car analogy: My Mini Cooper, new, had a problem with the power windows that was common to the car. The windows fit into the car so tightly the motor could barely raise them and with a nasty scraping sound. There were scratches on the windows it was so tight. The dealership knew what it was and had it fixed in less than a day. It was a common problem.

Btw, I did beta for SFC1 and SFC2 and I remember those times. Btw the failure of those series and Taldren was moving away from SFB and trying to please arcade players. That eroded the original SFC1 fan base when SFC3 was released. The game was dumbed which was one of the problems. I still consider SFC1 one of the best games I ever played. I wish they stayed in that area instead of trying to please arcade shooters.

Now moving onto SH4, as you may know SH3 multiplayer was never fixed, the server to client damage bug that caused clients receive near instant death from any depth charge in the water within specific long range distance was the killer. I said to myself I want SH4 to basically be what SH3 is aftter 1.4 patch and have multiplayer that works.

Now I don't know yet whether multiplayer is working fine and I wont know until the weekend. But there is a crazy amount of bugs popping up that really worry me. Sure the resolution of 3d engine being locked at only 1024 and no fsaa is negative but I can swallow that to a certain degree. But for example chronometer not working at all in manual tdc or a quite regular crash to dekstop when clicking statdameter really get on my nerves. I have read a number of other issues. Now in reality we wont see any more patches for SH4 than we saw with SH3(3-4). Each of those patches fixed very small number of issues. I do hope it fixes major gameplay bugs and maybe if possible fix few graphical issues like maybe allowing to turn off specific effects to allow AA.

These series was my dream since SH2, SH3 + gwx mod is great in single player(mp bugged), and I really hope SH4 can be actually playable online. However, high amount of fear hit my head over past few days:(

You sir, are a God.

I also don't enjoy complainers and negativity but let's be careful here.
Just because we all enjoy subsims doesn't mean we have to accept everything they sell us with a big smile.
There is nothing wrong with pointing out bugs and faults. 60$ is alot of money for some people.

And I hear the same argument from fans/followers of just about every single simulation community. I've no vested interest in their success beyond perhaps buying their titles, and I'm not going to pay twice to get one good game in future. And if they rip fans, and I stress if, then why shouldn't they repeat it in future if they know they can get away with it already?

I've got the Deluxe edition pre-ordered, delivered yesterday, I could've cancelled but as Ducimus says you make your choices knowing full well what could happen. But it doesn't mean I'm going to just blindly part with my cash if I don't like the product in some misguided belief I should support the future of the genre.

Whilst Ducimus does state that games can and will have bugs, and they can be rectified, there's a certain limit to how bad it can get. I've not yet played the game so I'm going to defer judgement on this, but let's be honest - did Ubi really fix SH3, or did the modders do it for them for free?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and venture a guess that few people here are real newbies to PC games in general. Hence, based on that assesment, everyone here has had past experiences of some sort or another with games that had some glaring bugs at release. If all that is true, my question to you is, dId you REALLY expect anything different in relation to bugs? If you did, you were fooling yourself.


Some people on this thread (who seem rather worked up i might add), have been into SH3 long enough to know what it was like before patch 1.4b. I mean, ****, i remember when there were forum debates in regards as if it were better to play patch, or unpatched since patch 1.3 broke the soundman? Remember that people?! There are STILL, MANY bugs in SH3 that remain unfixed.

Getting all worked up and ranting on the forum like some stark rathing uptight lunatic on a crusade is not going to solve anything. You had the power to speak to Ubi all along - with your wallet. Now if you know how the last silent hunter release went, and you preordered SH4.. well.. you should have known better. As the saying goes, Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Now, if ya'll will exuse me, im going to go check on my preorder status and wistfully wish i could play that damn game - bugs and all.