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Tchocky 01-23-07 07:31 PM

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Originally Posted by Sea Demon
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky
Reporting with glee? Can you show proof or examples of this?

Yes. It's there blaring across the headlines everyday. Today we get a video story on the front page of CNN news titled "War Weary families". How about balancing that out with a story of a proud family who's family member is serving in Iraq? And their pride in their military family member. We have yet another helo crash with 5 killed from AP on CBSnews. Agonizing over every death. How does that help with resolve to complete the job? Every death, reported.

It's not the job of the media to build morale and resolve, what you're thinking of is propaganda maybe?
Should the media balance every report of a plane crash with stories about all the planes that landed safely? No they shouldnt, because troops getting killed in these kind of numbers (25 over the weekend?) is not normal. It is abnormal. It is news.
Would you honestly prefer that the deaths weren't reported?

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If that doesn't look like a concerted effort to demoralize our nation, what is? How many terrorists have we killed? What's the ratio of good guy to bad? What's the actual percentage of deaths to those who have been deployed? And how does it compare to other wars? If you read today's media, you would think we're taking record casualty rates of 95%. When in fact it's less than 1%.
No, I think that when troop surges of 20,000 are reported, along with "high" casualty figures of 5 per day, most people can work out that 95% of troops arent dying out there.

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You can't see the media bias, that's your problem. Put your head back in the sand, hate America, hope for failure, and vote Democrat above all. Some people are just a lost cause.
Of course I can see media bias. I'm not saying "the" media bias because there is more than one. every outlet has it's own slant, whether you can see it or not.
I don't hate America. I've made my home here before, and I'm doing it again now.

Sea Demon 01-23-07 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma
I'm not a Democrat.
I am against the War.
I do not hate the President. However, I do think him and his have proven beyond the pail to be far from the best we can do. In fact, I consider his tenure as President to be nothing but a series of set backs and failues of policy, politics, and execution on almost all fronts.
I do not think the US is neither Imperialistic, nor evil.
Patriotism has nothing to do with bumper stickers, and has alot more to do with questioning government than not.

"Support the Troops" is another phrase that has been made an almost empty meaningless slogan by our beloved media and politicians, none the less, I do so sir, Yes. Im sorry if that disapoints you.

Nope. Since when do we start defining terms to our liking? Patriotism is now defined as questioning the government?!?!?! Actually, patriotism is defined by Merriem Webster as "Love and devotion to one's country". How we come to those ends can be debated. But the anti-war left sure has a funny way of showing it. I might as well cheat on my wife to show her that I love her. :doh:

And no, I fail to see how you can support the troops if your doing everything in your power to demoralize the nation's support for their actions, doing everything in your power to hinder their Commander in Chief, and redefining established terms to fit the agenda of political malcontents like you've attempted in this thread. "To some of us, "Support the Troops" is alot more than lip service. At least you've admitted it is an empty term to you.

Sea Demon 01-23-07 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky
It's not the job of the media to build morale and resolve, what you're thinking of is propaganda maybe?
Should the media balance every report of a plane crash with stories about all the planes that landed safely? No they shouldnt, because troops getting killed in these kind of numbers (25 over the weekend?) is not normal. It is abnormal. It is news.
Would you honestly prefer that the deaths weren't reported?

Of course I can see media bias. I'm not saying "the" media bias because there is more than one. every outlet has it's own slant, whether you can see it or not.
I don't hate America. I've made my home here before, and I'm doing it again now.

It's not the job of the media to have an agenda, yet they do in this case. It's the anti-war agenda unfortunately. And it's totally antithetical to America's success. And yes, the media should balance out the bad with the good. That's what I would prefer. A balanced and total view of the news for the purposes of informing the citizens. They aren't doing that now. And thus, they are a hostile media.

In addition, we have a major political party (Democrat)working towards America's defeat. And not being subtle about it. Yet claiming they support the troops. How foolish to believe them. Whether they want to admit it or not.

Enigma 01-23-07 07:39 PM

Quote:

And no, I fail to see how you can support the troops if your doing everything in your power to demoralize the nation's support for their actions, doing everything in your power to hinder their Commander in Chief, and redefining established terms to fit the agenda of political malcontents like you've attempted in this thread. "To some of us, "Support the Troops" is alot more than lip service. At least you've admitted it is an empty term to you.
:lol: This is really boyond a joke now....

What I said:
Quote:

and has alot more to do with questioning government than not.
What you said I said:
Quote:

Patriotism is now defined as questioning the government?!?!?!
Nuff said. The rest is just the rantings of a right winger, who believes anyone who disagrees with him is unpatriotic and wants his friends (3 dead in my case) and countrymen to be killed, and for America to fail. It's a chumps way out. It's baseless. And most of all, it's the most fundamentaly un-American thing an American can do.

Im out on this one. Once it becomes personal (and irate, apparantly..) , theres rarely a sensible discussion to be had...

Tchocky 01-23-07 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon
It's not the job of the media to have an agenda, yet they do in this case. It's the anti-war agenda unfortunately. And it's totally antithetical to America's success.

There is no single outlet with a single agenda. I thought I went over this. Would you call Fox News' slant anti-war?

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And yes, the media should balance out the bad with the good. That's what I would prefer. A balanced and total view of the news for the purposes of informing the citizens. They aren't doing that now. And thus, they are a hostile media.
Not every situation has an equally balanced "good" and "bad" side, so how could this new medium you're talking about be anything but biased? Take the case of a serial murderer. "Sentenced to death. Killed grannies. Nice haircut."

Sea Demon 01-23-07 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma
Nuff said. The rest is just the rantings of a right winger, who believes anyone who disagrees with him is unpatriotic and wants his friends (3 dead in my case) and countrymen to be killed, and for America to fail. It's a chumps way out. It's baseless. And most of all, it's the most fundamentaly un-American thing an American can do.

Im out on this one. Once it becomes personal (and irate, apparantly..) , theres rarely a sensible discussion to be had...

Of course you're out on this one. But I only said things based on what you said. You said "Support the Troops" is an empty phrase to you. You tried to redefine patriotism into a definition that doesn't exist. Nobody said you can't question the government, but that does not define what a patriot is. Look in a dictionary. I'm only going by what the Democrats say, how the media behaves in it's reporting, and questioning your arguments as fundamentally flawed and confused. There is honest dissent, but the Democrats don't provide that. When you have Democrats bickering for months about needing to change tactics and for Bush to admit mistakes....then he does that....then the Democrats nail him for it and move the goal posts....that's not honest dissent. That's partisan BS. And it hurts the country. That is not patriotic. If they were honest, they would give him credit for it, and give his new strategy a chance to work. They've already declared it a failure and the implementation hasn't started. You can't see it? OK. Enjoy the land of intellectual dishonesty.

Enigma 01-23-07 07:57 PM

Nope, you actually twisted my words at every possible turn, but Ill just leave them as they are for anyone to see. Thats fine with me. Somehow, it even seems fitting, or expected, perhaps.

Have a nice day.

bradclark1 01-23-07 08:03 PM

Quote:

you would think we're taking record casualty rates of 95%. When in fact it's less than 1%.
Pray tell where you get 1% casualty rate from? I'd say it's a bit more than 1%.

U.S. Deaths: 3060
Wounded No Medical Air Transport Required: 16,164
Wounded - Medical Air Transport Required: 6,670
Total: 25894

UK Deaths: 130
Other: 123

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/PieCountry.aspx

bradclark1 01-23-07 08:06 PM

Edited

bradclark1 01-23-07 08:18 PM

Quote:

then the Democrats nail him for it and move the goal posts....that's not honest dissent. That's partisan BS. And it hurts the country. That is not patriotic. If they were honest, they would give him credit for it, and give his new strategy a chance to work.
Change that to Bi-Partisan. Watch any news to include Fox if you want.
He admitted mistakes when the American public voiced their disgust and you were still going on about what a great job he was doing.

bradclark1 01-23-07 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon
Benchmarks help the bad guys gauge our activities. :down: The only way to deal with terrorists is screw the banchmarks, and go all out and destroy them. Unfortunately, With a Democrat congress, Bush has no choice but to do some of this their way.

Umm.:hmm: It's been a Democrat congress for less then 30 days. What about the other 5 years?

Tchocky 01-23-07 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

These questions seem fair, highlighting the difference between using a polling organisation such as GlobeScan, and a biased network asking it's own questions.

Sea Demon 01-23-07 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradclark1
Quote:

you would think we're taking record casualty rates of 95%. When in fact it's less than 1%.
Pray tell where you get 1% casualty rate from? I'd say it's a bit more than 1%.

U.S. Deaths: 3060
Wounded No Medical Air Transport Required: 16,164
Wounded - Medical Air Transport Required: 6,670
Total: 25894

UK Deaths: 130
Other: 123

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/PieCountry.aspx

Depends on how you count it. But if you look at all troops deployed, rotated to both theaters of major conflict, it adds up to around 1% of deaths. It was just in a CENTCOM report. If you look at Iraq and take a single rotation of 130,000 troops, of course that number will reflect a higher percentage. And of course adding wounded (permanently or less serious) makes the picture bleaker.

But ya' know. What I really find sad, is that you almost seem to be salivating at these losses to prove some kind of point in how America is failing and all is lost. Is it your goal to make your fellow Americans who served think that they and their fellow soldiers wasted their times and lives? I currently have two friends over there. I just went to one of their weddings in St. Louis not too long ago. He volunteered to go back. And he also told me how absolutely bogus the media is on reporting about conditions on the ground. He said times were tough, but most guys in his unit are hoping that they get the resources and support to succeed. He said some don't like the way Bush is conducting it, and wish they could do things differently, but they felt their presence was needed, and running away would be the wrong thing to do. Despite Mother Nancy, and Ted the Red, alot of these people feel that what they are doing is worthwhile. So continue to demoralize, wring your hands, and salivate over American failure. You may get what you ask for. But you may not like what you get served.

Tchocky 01-23-07 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon
But ya' know. What I really find sad, is that you almost seem to be salivating at these losses to prove some kind of point in how America is failing and all is lost..............................So continue to demoralize, wring your hands, and salivate over American failure. You may get what you ask for. But you may not like what you get served.

He disputes your assertion that the casualty rate is 1%, where's this salivating going on?

Enigma 01-23-07 09:45 PM

In the paranoid corners of the brain, perhaps. :-?


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