but it does change cargo loadout. If there is even only one crate of ammo the entire ship will blow. Its the secondary explosions that trigger the keel zone.

Ok, so it sounds like NSM4 and RSRD don't play well together?

In addition to breaking ships in half with contact torpedoes, I noticed that I was sinking tankers with one torpedo. They didn't break in half, but would explode after the hit.

So it seems to me that running NSM4 with RSRD actually causes the opposite of NSM's goals, ships now take even less torpedoes to sink and go down quickly in my limited experience with the two.

Can I go back to NSM3.3 with TM1.7.6 and RSRD? Are those compatible?

Is this a problem that's fixable? or should those of that are running RSRD switch back to NSM3?

I have not looked at the innards of NSM3.3 in a long time ago as I merged it with Trigger Maru but I think it worked well. It did not have the extended keel compartment that Werner added to NSM4. Well, I am going to pull NSM4 out I am seeing the same behavior as you are. RSRD is indispensable in my MOD lineup. To each his own and I am not criticizing Werner's work since I really do like the MOD.

Fix
 

Anyway to get the two to work together?

Ok, I'll definitely give NSM3.3 a go with the latest TM and RSRD.

Tough choices, I definitely do not want to give up RSRD, but I also don't want to give up natural sinking :arrgh!:

I went back to NSM3.3 with the 3.3 hardcore torpedo mod. Now that's the NSM I remember.

I torpedoed a large modern composite going about 11-12 knots, 4 fish fired all set for contact at 6 feet depth, 3 hits, 1 dud. The 2 hits were aft of the the funnel at 11:54. She kept on going but with observations at 60 second intervals I could tell she was flooding in the stern. Speed slowed to about 5 or 6 knots some 5 minutes later at about 12:00. Stern observed way down at or below water line while the bow is rising at 12:05, speed 1-2 knot. 12:10, sunk message appears as she slides in backwards, bow way up in the air. 12:13, ship vanishes beneath the waves.

:rock:

No major explosions or broken keels. Wasn't even a fire on deck until the stern went below the waterline.

I already have a long campaign career going with RSRD 3 and NSM 4 Classic, can I safely rollback to NSM 3.3 that's in TMaru 1.7.6 without ruining my carrer in game?

It's safer to do it in port, but I'm 99% it won't ruin your career.

As a stopgap measure until you get to port, i suggest opening your Zones.cfg (in the root of your Data folder), finding this entry:

[NSKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=10.0
Flotability=10.0
HitPoints=150
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.5
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=1.0
FloodingTime=200
CargoType=Ammo

And change CargoType=Ammo to CargoType=None. This should stop you from breaking ships in 2 with contact shots. It will also stop you from breaking them in 2 with mag shots, though.

I seems like exploding ammo is the culprit between NSM 4 and RSRD, but I ran a few patrols with RSRD and NSM 3.3 without any abnormal behavior.

This is the best alternative i can suggest yet. Im working on a fix but this will take a while. So far you can disable The keel zone by the method above. You will still have all nsm4 features but without breaking ships.

Will lowering either CargoExplosionRange or AmmoForceMultiplier do the trick? I remember it was the first parameter that gave me nasty side-effects when I was merging the NSM4 and ROW zones.cfg files.

What would happen if you disabled both the CargoExplosionRange or AmmoForceMultiplier ? wouldn't the vessel sink anyhow due to damage to the hull? So we'd lose out on eye candy; but the ship's would sink closer to the way there ment to, plus your torpedo expendture would be closer to the truth? I've noticed useing NSM 3 + the hardcore NSM 3 that oil tankers also blow up with one hit, Cargo ship's seem fine, 3-4 contact hit's and a wee while to go under.

Is NSM 3.3 still around for download somewhere?

Okay, thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.

I love RSRD, but also can't part with NSM, can't wait to see them working better together.