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-   Silent Hunter 5 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=244)
-   -   The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160764)

d@rk51d3 01-31-10 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reece (Post 1253554)
I would say scam, it certainly isn't released yet!:hmmm:

It's not uncommon for a game (even movies) to be torrented before official release.;)

supposedtobeworking 01-31-10 03:19 PM
100% in agreement with walleye - though I will not be buying SH5 primarily because of the inexcusable inconvenience of not being able to play it whenever, wherever and as long as I want to, this is certainly an important point to be made. As an American I am sick of continually losing my privacy more and more. I am quite sure that the government can and is monitoring whoever they want already, and now even the bloody computer game company I purchased a product from is going to be monitoring me as well? Bad enough the government is doing it, but now even the private sector is jumping on board. I sincerely hope that Ubi experiences a horrid sales loss as a result of this move so that they get the message crystal clear - their customers will not tolerate this.

OldOakTree 01-31-10 05:19 PM
Walleye hits the nail squarely on the head....atleast it seems the regime running Britain could have even taught the stazi some tricks. If even private hobbies in life are to be scrutinized under the modern pretence that everyone is guilty until proved innocent then it seems something other than human. For this reason, on principle I will avoid any DRM game.

IanC 01-31-10 05:36 PM
I personally think comparing a video's game protection measures to the communist oppression is a bit much... I know a guy, Russian, who refused to spy for the soviets (he was a chess player so he traveled internationally) and they ruined him. Not sure what they did to him, but when he was telling me this, he had tears in his eyes. I have a feeling if I said to him "DRM/OSP is just like what you went through" he might just slap me silly.

Steeltrap 01-31-10 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanC (Post 1254143)
I personally think comparing a video's game protection measures to the communist oppression is a bit much... I know a guy, Russian, who refused to spy for the soviets (he was a chess player so he traveled internationally) and they ruined him. Not sure what they did to him, but when he was telling me this, he had tears in his eyes. I have a feeling if I said to him "DRM/OSP is just like what you went through" he might just slap me silly.
...and he'd be right to, as a comparison of a minor inconvenience with such an impactful injustice is potentially insulting (i.e. I agree with the sentiment you've expressed).

I don't think anyone here is suggesting they're comparable, but there's a useful quote from Jefferson, I think, along the lines of:

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.

Yes, the view that DRM etc represents some major incursion in our personal rights etc is a bit excessive, but, as walleye put it, there IS a matter of principle behind it all.

As is usually the case, people rarely look beyond their immediate desires (in this case "I want a game for my PC/Xbox/whatever") to consider the longer-term implications of what they'll accept to achieve that desire.

Cheers

IanC 01-31-10 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeltrap (Post 1254199)
...and he'd be right to, as a comparison of a minor inconvenience with such an impactful injustice is potentially insulting (i.e. I agree with the sentiment you've expressed).

I don't think anyone here is suggesting they're comparable, but there's a useful quote from Jefferson, I think, along the lines of:

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.

Yes, the view that DRM etc represents some major incursion in our personal rights etc is a bit excessive, but, as walleye put it, there IS a matter of principle behind it all.

As is usually the case, people rarely look beyond their immediate desires (in this case "I want a game for my PC/Xbox/whatever") to consider the longer-term implications of what they'll accept to achieve that desire.

Cheers
Right. You can find many posts from me talking about how I'm against DRM/OSP on matter of principle also. But at the same time, I don't think there's anything more to read into than "we just want to make sure you have a legit copy". I don't think this is a start to anything...
I realise I'm contradicting myself btw
I need to ponder this one a little more :hmmm:

walleye 01-31-10 06:44 PM
Quote:
I personally think comparing a video's game protection measures to the communist oppression is a bit much... I know a guy, Russian, who refused to spy for the soviets (he was a chess player so he traveled internationally) and they ruined him. Not sure what they did to him, but when he was telling me this, he had tears in his eyes. I have a feeling if I said to him "DRM/OSP is just like what you went through" he might just slap me silly.

true. he might slap you silly. on the other hand, if you tell him that strangers want to know and have a say in how he uses and manages his property, you just might see something else in his eyes.

because the worst part about the old days wasn't the fear; wasn't the violence; you'll get used to that and anyway it was made to be worse than it was; no, it was the fact that they didn't want you to have anything; anything out of the ordinary, anything that was special and rare and that nobody/few else had. that you were just another ant in the anthill, same as all the others, that you were supposed to want the same things and think the same thoughts with the rest. that every bit of your life was to be planned, by others, and that you could neither do or say anything about it.

now, requiring you to ID yourself before and during playing a computer game might seem like someting trivial. i mean, if you don't want to, don't play, right?

well, maybe. but it's a GAME for heaven's sake! if FUN gets so tedious and annoying, so regulated and bureaucratized, if you essentialy have to prove your identity to the same standards required in a traffic stop TO PLAY A GAME AND TO HAVE FUN and people THINK NOTHING OF IT, to me that's a sign.

a sign of a society that's on the verge of redefining the relationship between it and the individual.

again, this is not about ubi's curly ideas on fighting piracy and used game sales. it's about people putting up with it, people finding nothing wrong with it. and yes, it's a trivial issue but smart men don't bring about change by revolution; rather by evolution.

a computer can't work without software, it's a useless piece of junk without. given this trend in thinking, that you don't own software but lease it, given the current push towards virtualisation, the cloud and all that buzz, thin dumb clients displaying screens rendered on some application provider's mainframes, where does that lead? what about the fact that more and more aspects of everyday life are intermediated by computers these days and that the trend is growing exponentially? finance, entertainment, social interaction, you name it. can you see the appeal in controlling all that? the power that derives from having the ability to deny someone access to that interaction? or to allow it?

think about it. someone's wet dream might just become reality.

IanC 01-31-10 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by walleye (Post 1254225)
true. he might slap you silly. on the other hand, if you tell him that strangers want to know and have a say in how he uses and manages his property, you just might see something else in his eyes. <snip>
Right, well that's the crux of it all. Is DMR/OSP more than what it is, and/or will it lead down a dark path. I'm not so sure.

Steeltrap 01-31-10 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanC (Post 1254237)
Right, well that's the crux of it all. Is DMR/OSP more than what it is, and/or will it lead down a dark path. I'm not so sure.
Yes, it's probably a rather long bow to draw, and obviously small beer compared with the many evils to be found in the world.

All the same, people might as well confront the issues they can rather than saying nothing because there are worse issues out there.

Mikhayl 01-31-10 07:22 PM
Well no need to project ourselves in the future to see the downward spiral. Just a few years ago all games (safe for MMOs) were "self contained", you buy the box and that's it, no external intervention required. You could register the game but it was purely voluntary.
Then you have games that require an online activation.
Then you have games that require an online activation/check everytime you start the game.
And now we have games that require you to be online constantly when you play.

For SH5 I was willing to pour water in my wine and accept a one-time online activation, but as far as I'm concerned even that is crossing the line. So far I never bought a game that required me to do any external action whatsoever after buying it.

Elder-Pirate 01-31-10 08:19 PM
^^
Please let's not add any more fuel to the fire. If maybe everyone agrees to NOT have ANY OSP/DRM period, then maybe we all can get back to our gaming here with SHV and other games possibly infected, maybe?

And you better believe UBI is reading these posts with an eye here and an eye there. :o

Wolfehunter 01-31-10 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by walleye (Post 1253923)
as a citizen of a former people's dictatorship, i can't decide if i should laugh or cry.

in pre 1989 romania, if you had a weapon permit, it came packaged with rude cops entering your property without your permision to check the whereabouts of your weapon(s) and ammo. you were supposed to register typewriters, copy machines and photo cameras with the local precinct. you were not allowed to posses just any kind of radio or tv set, only those that were "approved" ie certified that one couldn't receive BBC or Radio Free Europe with them. yea, you had to register those anyway. police scanners? i believe they started with seven years for that.

and that was only the crust of the cake. there were forbidden books; there were forbidden movies; there were censored songs. mass surveillance (within the technical capabilites of the era and place) was everywhere. a goddamn phone line installation came with what nowadays would be described as an EULA implying consent for wiretapping. actually, minus the "agreement" part. the law implied obedience and acceptance of wiretapping. and that was after waiting on the list for six months. it was cheap, i'll admit that.

the "west" proclaimed to stand for the exact opposite of what we were; and was ready to rain atomic weapons on our heads to ensure that this disease we called our way of life didn't take hold in their back yard.

and yet, thirty years from that time, i see things like DMCA; a year's income and jail time for a copyright infringement; CCTVs on every corner; data mining on a massive scale; "think of the children" and "freedom fries"; and WORST OF ALL, people that claim to uphold democratic and humanitarian principles saying "if you've got nothing to hide or didn't do anything wrong then you've got nothing to worry about"; do you have ANY idea how many times THAT was said in certain cellars not so long ago in my country?

you might think this is overdoing it in a discussion about game copy protection. but it's not. see, it's about control. it's about turning people into little mindless pavlov zombies; stimulus - reaction; it's about monetizing culture and demonizing any kind of human pursuit that's offering even the slightest shred of independent, personal experience. and it's not even government mandated: the big apes enable it; the private sector does the heavy lifting.

to come here and see people that have nothing against, hell, endorse third parties interfering with the way they live their daily lives. it makes me sick. maybe angleton was right and the soviets did fake their collapse in order to better conquer the world.

:damn:
Great post walleye. Respect dude. :salute:

dannygjk 02-01-10 01:01 AM
SH5-Anti-piracy nightmare.
 
Hi,

Well, I read a large portion of the posts regarding problems related to copy protection for SH5, (and many other games). Luckily for me I don't mind playing older games; nay, I love playing older games. I was cheering every time I read a well-written objection to the extremes to which the game copy-protection schemes have come.

Count...me...out.

Dan

ps. so glad I didn't fall for the pre-order call.

KING111 02-01-10 12:35 PM
i will not buy SH5 or Storm Of War or Rise Of Flight
because of DRM
and because we are not getting a full game in
Storm Of War and Rise Of Flight you get 1 plane to fly
and then if want to have another one to fly
you have to buy it for $3 or $4 each and SH5 only go's up to 1943
making it easy for them sell an addon from 1943 to 1945
a few months after SH5 comes out SH3 and SH4 and
il-2 sturmovik 1946 will do me for years to come as long
as the moders keep making the addons :rock::rock::rock::rock:

Letum 02-01-10 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KING111 (Post 1254664)
i will not buy SH5 or Storm Of War or Rise Of Flight
because of DRM
and because we are not getting a full game in
Storm Of War and Rise Of Flight you get 1 plane to fly
and then if want to have another one to fly
you have to buy it for $3 or $4 each
Where have you got your ideas about SoW?

Storm of war will NOT be published by Ubisoft. It is developed and published by 1C.
Storm of War's protection system is not yet known, but it is unlikely to be like SHV or RoF.

Storm of War ships with 11 planes and it is very unlikely that here will be a pay-per-plane system.


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