I don't think the way of EUF was initially right/correct way..
I agree with you about set of historically correct dates and.. see below..

My mod-pack is initially made for 'casual players' and I anytime can set there any dates what I want..

and what we can fill in that field? for example?

PS: and what is barrel? :D because to me the word "barrel" is associated only with the measure of the volume of oil :oops:

I agree. Only good for testing. But many "casual" players liked it this way :-?

Unfortunately, the compromise between historical accuracy and "player friendliness" is not alway easy. But, as with other settings, we can prepare a version for hardcore players with historical availability dates (or at least likely dates...) and another version for "take it easy" players, featuring a mix of likely and fictional dates :03:

yep, the word got several meanings :yep:

Wikipedia's definition:

As for the name to be set in the barrel field, you can get it from the other barrel field, in the Debug group :up:

I wonder if some of these dates indicate initial availability, but not operational installation. The evolution of U-boat flak armament can be maddeningly tricky to follow, but it seems to me that all the flak upgrades can basically be traced back to June 1942, when BdU decided that U-boats needed vastly strengthened anti-aircraft capabilities.The confusing part, though, is that there were never enough of the desired weapon available (this is especially true of the 3.7 cm). Because of this, upgrades proceeded in a series of stopgap measures from June 1942 until almost the end of the war.

After lots of research and confusion, I decided the easiest way to understand flak availability was to track the tower (turm) conversions. Here is the data I've been able to find so far:


Turm 0
Armament: one 2 cm C/30 on tower

Distribution: all boats until mid-1942 (Stern, 100)

Turm I
Armament: two 15 mm MG151 (Twin) on bridge, one 2 cm C/30 Twin on Wintergarten

Distribution: fitted only to U 553 sometime between June and Sept. 1942

Turm I (Mediterranean, with specially enlarged bridge)
Armament: two 12.3 mm (Twin) Breda machine guns on bridge, one 2 cm (C/30?) on bridge

Distribution: According to Rössler (p. 188), it “was built into certain Mediterranean U-boats and used operationally in 1943 (U 81 and U 453)”

Turm II
Armament: one 2 cm C/38 on bridge, one 2 cm C/38 on Wintergarten

Distribution: installation began in December 1942 but encountered problems that were not resolved until mid-January 1943. Installed in frontline boats beginning in May 1943 and standard on all newly-built boats from June 1943 (Rössler, 188). This was an interim turm, adopted because neither the twin nor the quad mounts of the C/38 were available in enough numbers to allow conversion to Turm IV

Turm III (Only for Type VIIDs)
Armament: two 2 cm C/38 on a specially widened bridge

Distribution: no information

Turm IV
Armament: two 2 cm C/38 Twin on bridge, one 2 cm C/38 Quad on Wintergarten

Distribution: First installed in March/April 1943 for testing on U 758. See BdU war log for 15 June 1943 (above) for availability. According to Stern (p. 108-109), there were enough C/38 Twins available by October 1943 and enough Quads by November 1943 to fit all boats. Rössler (p. 188) says that, by August 1943, no boats were allowed to leave port without the Turm IV upgrade.

Note: the 2 cm C/38 Quad was to be replaced by the 3.7 cm mount when it became available (Stern, 105); by 1 December 1944, 18 boats had had their 2 cm C/38 Quad exchanged for a single 3.7 cm. Stern writes that “some very late VIICs were fitted with a twin 3.7 cm mount” (p. 108)

Turm V
Armament: (added Flak platform forward of tower structure)

Distribution: experimentally fitted to U 362

Turm VI
Armament: (same as Turm V, except forward Flak platform was on a separate pedestal)

Distribution: experimentally fitted to U 673 and U 973

Turm VII
Armament: (added a Flak platform that completely circled the tower) four single 3.7 cm mounts, two forward and two aft

Distribution: this was quite rare, but no records exist as to which boats were outfitted (Stern, 109)

Thank you very much Keysersoze, this information is very helpful. :yeah:

Tomorrow I will try to summarize it in therms of gun ability dates, but I see there is enough material for revising stock availability dates of turm upgrades :yep: :up:

P.S: I have replied to your PM. Sorry for the delay :)

Hi gap

I have e-mailed the document we've spoken about in PM to you (by the way, your PM inbox is full). Let me know if you did not receive the e-mail or if there were problems with the attachment.

Thanks again for letting me help with your research!

keysersoze

Okay.. I've read this.. but what's mean the entry 'muzzles' in this case?

Well, I got it from Obj_Turrent group and will see what will happen if I'll set other values in Trev/Elev tolerance fields now..

nothing.. again.. :-?

PS: also have tried to swap AP and HE entries in HEX editor.. the editor shows that the entries swapped but.. in the Goblyn controller screen everything as before.. why?

EDIT: PPS: mediafire design has changed :06:

Again not good news.. :-?

Elevation speed is not working as we thought.. it was wrong parameter.. at least for Flak guns.. maybe for heavy, slow guns like deck gun is.. in two words: guns accuracy decreases with very high speed decreases but this not depend of sea/wind states.. I can make the same with change animation in 0.01-0.03 sec..

I think the only right parameter is elevation tolerance, but how can we make it work?

:/\\!!

Thank you for your valuable support, keysersoze, you have made an outstanding work with that document :yep:

I have just replied to your e-mail and made some free space in my PM box. :up:

'muzzles' settings are more easy than the rest, and cool things can probably be done messing with them. :sunny:
My understanding of them is that they define how far apart along the cartesian axes gun muzzles are set (for multiple mounting guns). I am not sure about the unit used, but it is probably meters.

In game they might determine a few things:

- muzzles firing order (following the same order as in the sim file)
- muzzle flash fx distances
- shells dispersions (the difference between the ideal aiming point and the trajectories of shells fired by different muzzles).

Talking about dispersion, in real life it is affected by muzzle distances and by guns convergence (i.e. the slight inclination of lateral barrel axes compensating for muzzle distances). In general, and within a certain limit, the shorter gun axes distances, the lesser is dispersion. But too close gun axes increase dispersion rather than reducing it, due to the vibration caused and to the interference among different shells. I doubt that this effect is simulated in SH5 (so, guns which were known to have an high dispersion should be given an higher muzzle distance than they historically had). As for convergence, it was calculated over an ideal target range. The longer the distance between the target and the convergence range, the wider the dispersion. I ignore if SH5 got a convergence range distance, but provided that it was modelled, it could be related with the 'Restr_dist' parameter.

Have you noticed any other change, unrelated with guns accuracy? :hmmm:

yes, TDW had tested it already: seems to be hardcoded or set elsewhere. :-?

I need time to elaborate your information.

We could tweak animation indices for making those guns lesser accurate, but it doesn't seem the correct way to do it anyway: the gun would be always aiming a bit to the right, to the left, to the top, etc, but we are rather looking for a random error.

There must be a way to do it. Maybe gunner skills in UPCDataGE settings? :hmm2:

Historical Specifications by keysersoze
 

The document kindly provided by keysersoze. Thank you again, mate :up:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7MK...it?usp=sharing

It deals with:

Flak guns specs and service notes
Conning tower upgrades armaments and service notes
Radars specs and service notes
Radar Warning Receivers specs and service notes
Type VIIC U-boats turning radii/speeds
Escort ships effectiveness, turning radii, etc.

No..

Okay..
I found a new toy.. I d/l and installed Photoshop, now studying.. :D

I too think that it isn't the right way to do it..

GET GIMP!!!!!

:hmmm: what is GIMP :06:

:o

http://www.thetorontothymes.com/wp-c.../The-Gimp..jpg