Here's a good article from someone with a finger on the pulse.

http://nathanieltapley.com/2011/08/1...erons-parents/

I don't know if Sammi is Jesus - probably not! ;) As any other statement members on here write, it is open for discussion. I found it fitting, because he adresses ALL idiots, without singling out a group and he just wrote about the same topics like you wrote 2 posts later.
a little hint: just check out which ethnic groups organized themselves to defend their property AND uphold the law of the country they live in - whites anglosaxons were only one one part of it.

Sure, like it always was. But the shoe that the search for explanations equals a sympathy for criminal elements does not fit.

I tried to adress this in my last answer:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=562 where I even (tada!) agreed with some of your points.

I read some stuff on left British websites about the riots, and reading most stuff on there made me want to bang my head against the wall all day :damn: - or theirs ;)
Those middle-class wannabe revolutionaries suffer from a serious lack of perspective, idiological borders and lack of life experience. I am glad that I saw some few sane opinions there.

Well, I try to be reasonable, sometimes I am more rhetoric - c'est moi! :03:
I try not to be personal, but disregarding other opinions and statements is a sign of bad bahaviour. I do not attack options just because they do not fit into my little, dumb political POV, I attack them when they are off. Other views can and should be discussed.

You see these groups as homogenous entities. I do not. Age for example makes a difference. Gender is another major feature differenbtiating people within a subgroup, with far-reaching consequences on a multitude of levels. And hostility towards British home culture has been shown in sociological reviews since early last decade to be the higher in migrants' younger age groups the more a.) non-integrative and b.) Muslim said Migrant subgroup is marked. Your own press linked and reported about these studies, and I have linked to these media reprots several years ago in this forum.

We have similiar findings from Germany. Sweden. Netherlands.

While I agree on the need for obligational integration and adaptation to European homke culture, I see multi-kulti failing too often and remind you that self-chosen segragation does not start with classes in relgion at school, but with ideological claims that have already been set before school even starts. Such families will refuse integration no matter whether you have relgious courses at school or not. It is a big EU-driven illusion to think they could tame a certain religion of peace by educating European Imams. If these Imams would indeed representing said religion, they still would need to represent the ideological claim of said religion (else they would not be that religion's "Imams") - no matter where they have been educated and whether they have a European diploma for it or not.

All this is okay with me, but I again must tell you that you simply bypass the problem of ideologic claim to not needing to integrate. Every social worker and school teacher (I know several) here in Germany would tell you that the indeed "enlightened" Muslim families, mostly Turks over here, who can afford it would send there children to private schools anyway, since the state-run schools fall for the same illusions like you indicate in the above paragraph, and that the majority of Muslim families in state schools either refuse to cooperate with the public school'S teachers in educating their children for desinterest, leaving the whole burden completely to the school (so it necessarily must fail), or actively fight against the school'S ideas and actively counter integration attempts by school teachers by educatiung their children at home in a completely opposite way. It is a mixture of passdvity and desinterest on the one hand (due to the historically build fatalism), and active and wanted aggression.

I am sure it is the same in Sweden, Netherlands, France - and Britain.

"Us adults" are a very mixed, diverse breed with plenty of partially or completely mutually exclusive ideologies on mind.

Yes, that is the decline of the exemplary function of idols and values I talked of. The finajcial criticising and big bailouts have sent a devastating message to the ordinary small guy.

I see what you mean, cold progression and the like. A calculation that was published in Germany one or two days ago said that Germany is heavily effected by the decline of buying power of real wages over the past I think it were 20 years , and that in Germanyx that loss i greater than in other eurppean states. Germany also has the biggest minimum wages job sector in Europe and the greatest deficit in regulation for guaranteed minimum wages amongst all Western industrial nations. Now you kinow why tzhe German economy wentz smoother throught he crisis so far than anyone's elses. It's a a social time-bomb of course.

Agreed. In Germany we call it the fallout of the 68-generation, becasue back then there were student revolts in Germany that lead to a massive shift to the left in ther thinbking of achademic eltiers that today hold key offices in legislation, courts, and education. The education misery we have in Germany is one of the results of these 68ers, as we call them. Anti-authoritarian education, unlimited relativisation of standards until they mean nothing anymore, lowering performance standards to push up mean assessment scores. I have been psychologist myself and had, and still have friends working as teachers, sociologists, psychologists, social workers. You must not tell me. :) Never regretted I left it behind.


Agreed. Just for the record: I am critical of unselected migration policies and Islam - but that does not make me either a fascist or a Nazi. I know you did not throw that at me, but I remind of that just becasue there are people, also in this forum, who for rethorical reasons try the cheap shopt at me when being given the opportunity.

I'm sure there are my usual plenty of typos, but I am a lazy man. Forgive. :)

On leave now.

Hey thats not even remotely accurate, I only call Sky a nazi when he is writing word for word 1930/40s german propoganda but switching jews for muslims, it isn't a cheap shot and it isn't rhetorical as it is a direct and very telling point which gets right to the heart of why his "intelligence" has led him full circle into foolishness and how he is so blinded by his pet hatreds that he cannot even see anymore.
Likewise I only call him a liar when he is lying and only say he is repeating his thoroughly trashed rubbish when he repeats the same nonsense again and again after it has been shown to be undeniably nonsense dozens of times:yeah:

I've just read that article, and once again (tell me if I'm wrong in my translation) it appears to be blaming blacks/immigration. If that is the case then it is wholly wrong. The initial point was because police shot an innocent black man (innocent in that he didn't shoot first - he still had an illegal firearm capable at that time of doing so). And the protests on the Saturday evening were as a result of that (over-reactive, mis-informed locals). The rioting that occured that night was in areas of high non-white ethnicity and could be understood to be like previous race riots of the '80s and '90s. What followed was copycat thuggary by people in other cities who thought they could do the same and make much personal gain. Even some, I'm sure, of previous good character caught up in the mob moment . Black or white, what followed was not racially motivated, just greed.

to all: Good that we can discuss this topic further and rather civilized...:yeah:

:hmmm: this quite condradicts Clemens Wergin's opinion from yesterday, as Kielinger does try to mention some explanations. Not a bad article, some flaws though. The biggest one would be the one that people confuse no- or laissez-faire education with a democratic education style.
This is lesson one in pedagogics that this provides the same inefficency like an all-authoritarian education style.

The authoritarian beat-em-up style bears the same "results" as the "oh, i do not want to interfere" style. Values or respect for other folks is not one of them. Both are unfortunately predominant among the lower class.

Hi Skybird,

I see the groups as homogenous because, well quite simply, they are. Ages 11 - 33, male and female, black, white, and all colours in between. I don't think stopping religious lessons in schools is enough, I am talking about separating education and religion entirely. Over 2/3 primary schools in Britain are 'faith' schools, mainly christian and islamic, some judaic also, where by way of which school you go to you are segregated automatically - I am not talking about segregation within schools regarding religious lessons, of which you must admit the time could be better spent? If there is only 1 kind of primary school then regardless of ideologic resistance to integration, the children (who have no ideologic resistance) would be integrated at a crucial stage of their development. No parent could be worried that their child is being taught that other religion, because religion in schools would not exist. Do you see my point? Aren't there enough sunday schools and prayer meetings etc. outside of education to cater for religion?

I am critical of all religions, none more so than the three I mentioned above as they all harp on about the same fictitious creator and yet remain eternally divided on the matter. I think building mosques for muslims and churches for christians etc. is wrong. If I had my way, they'd all have to use the same building, either at the same time or work out a rotor, I wouldn't care which, just keep it away from me, and don't feed it to my kids please.

Anyway, I know religion is not the issue here, though it is as I see it part of the root cause, as it has exacerbated and encouraged the gang mentality that is a real part of the problem.

edit: Sorry I can't read German so no comment from me on that article.

Not quite accurate. The thing about immigration it blames, is that the immi politics "did not set reasonable requirements which are neccessary to adjust to a tradition on democracy" (quote from the article)
The piece also points towards the problem of immigrants who hate the guts of other immigrant groups.

The last paragraph of the article is complete bs though, it states that a hard criminal presecution is forbidden by political correctness. This is again an example for turning the own, German perception of the justice system and society here, into a statement about Britain's.

In general, the core essence of the article is this sentence :
my 2 cents: as if those values are different in the other classes, where an antisocial upper-class shows how desirable it is to live recklessly, exploit, cheat and lie for some financial gain.

Google translate did it for me. :yep:


I think. :hmmm:

Edit: just read Penguin's post above. Thanks. The people at the lower-end of that spectrum (it is perceived) need to get off their arses and look for jobs rather than live off benefits or go rioting/looting for their latest TV. I've just done a quick job search for within 10 miles of my nearest large town and there are hundreds of jobs to be filled - admittedly not all are available to all as some require specific qualifications/experience - but the rest are there for the taking, and just about all were above the minimum wage. And that town is not one of the most affluent areas of the county, or country. When I left the air force I was unemployed for about one month, when I was made redundant from that job two years later I was again unemployed for only a couple of weeks - and they were (are - if my boss reads this :D) jobs I wanted to do. People just expect it all on a plate nowadays.

That's not to say that everybody can or will find a job easily, I'm sure there are other areas that are different, but blaming the government (or the previous one that put us here) is not the answer.

Top tip to anyone who thinks they are living below the breadline and complains they don't have enough money - ditch your £40-per-month Sky subscription, sell your wall mounted 50" TV and replace it (if you must) with a much smaller model - it'll still work, just sit closer! Work out your mobile phone costs - why pay £35-per-month for a contract that includes 2000 minutes if you only use 200 minutes which would be available for £15? :damn: People need to help themselves, and I don't mean in an illegal way. :arrgh!:


/rant

Thank you for your correct translation this makes more sense to me now. I think you are spot on with your 2 cents that is exactly what has happened, and what regular people here are really ticked off about. That this is the example we set them. Gangs offer financial gains through criminality, wether that be drugs, guns, mugging etc. Consumerism makes these financial gains all the more desirable, added to the welfare money and you as a teenager could be raking in more than a man twice your age who has been working for 10 years. Gangs also have power to exact what they decide is justice in a way the authorities may not.

The authorities need to provide better opportunities to compete with this, but the lack of values and morality that they talk about is endemic throughout our society particularly among its leaders and said authorities.

Unfortunately this cannot be fixed quickly.

@Herr-Berbunch - Yeah I never tried google translate for more than a few words before, pretty cool :DL

Don't worry, Dave will get it under control...err...Dave?

http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/0...on-looters.jpg

But like everything on teh interwebs it's not 100% reliable. I use it at work mostly for Norwegian stuff, but with Subsim it's also invaluable with Française, Suomi, Polski, Deutsch (obviously!), amonst the odd other.


Even Cymraeg -

Helo 'na boyo! A ydych yn y Gogledd, De, neu yn y canol? :hmmm: (y u no memes make even more sense to the Welsh!)

Some very good points on these last pages. Pretty awful all around. :shifty:

Great pic Oberon. :har:

I had to look at that for a while before I :har:

Yn y boyo canol.

Ha! this google translate is good, I never could speak welsh but now...

Ah, I used to go out with a girl from Welshpool.

More p'shopped looters available here - http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/ and most are very, very funny.

My favourite is this one, so subtle -

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8548/...zzu1r1qajl.jpg