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-   -   Europe's migrant problem (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=221753)

kraznyi_oktjabr 01-08-16 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan D (Post 2371552)
In Poland right-wing populists try to score with voters with anti-German rethoric, in the US right-wing populists try to score with anti-European rethoric and in Germany left-wing populists try to score with anti-American rethoric:woot:

Add to that ultra-nationalists patrolling city streets in Finland providing "security" from you-know-who... although few openly admit it. :woot:

August 01-08-16 07:49 AM

Just curious, what is the difference between an "ultra-nationalist" and a plain old regular nationalist?

Skybird 01-08-16 08:05 AM

Number of charges now has broken through the 200-barrier, and still raising. The Weißer Ring, a private organisation assisting victims of crimes, reminds of that many of the victims of sexual violence are ashamed and to varying degrees traumatised, it takes time to overcome this hindrance, and it needs courage to file a complaint since the procedures at court for victims of sexual violence can easily turn into a second nightmare, can become very intimate and degrading. Many victims contacted the Weißer Ring, but refuse to file charges. The real number of crimes that took place thus must be much higher than just 200.

It became known that similar incidents happened as well in Hamburg, Berlin, Stuttgart, even outside my own hometown Münster where concerned mothers at the last minute stepped in and prevented the worst from happening to their daughters, age 14 and 15, just that in all these cases the dimension of the crimes did not reach the proportions of Cologne. Always "groups of young men of Northafrican and Arabic looks" - the current German media's standard term - were involved. Cologne was not an isolated escape from the rule. Hamburg is in the North, Stuttgart in the South, Berlin in the East, Cologne in the West. Singular small-scale events additionally got reported from several small towns and villages, attempted or conducted gang-rapes and sexual assaults.

The police now has started to locate stolen cellphones from Cologne by their transmissions - inside refugee camps. That news will not be welcomed.

Feminist organisations meanwhile tried to hijack and turn around the events, trying to start another debate about sexual violence of local, German men against women, and sexual discrimination, once again. They say it were wrong and misleading, even hypocrisy, to focus on the events at New Year's Eve, and that we should instead look at the daily guilt German men load upon themselves every single day. - Stupidity cannot be argued against, you just can't. Because that feature is its essence. You can't accuse a hole in a mountain to be hollow.

Betonov 01-08-16 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2371563)
Just curious, what is the difference between an "ultra-nationalist" and a plain old regular nationalist?

Nationalist: I love my country, and will defend the degradation of the age old culture that defines us.

Ultra-nationalsit: everyone else sucks and should be hanged, including people that are less than 5 generations here.

kraznyi_oktjabr 01-08-16 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2371563)
Just curious, what is the difference between an "ultra-nationalist" and a plain old regular nationalist?

Well, that was best translation I could figure out for a little bit politically correct expression used by our national broadcaster Yle. For example (in spoiler wrap to minimize advertising them) (CENSORED by author) and other similar stuff; bigoted, racist, thugs (sometimes with criminal background) pretending to be "protectors of society". So far they have not caused any problems and as walking on the street is not illegal so their "operation" can continue.

Some associated groups (CENSORED by author) have used violence in past so I hope this thing doesn't get out of control.

EDIT #1:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov (Post 2371573)
Nationalist: I love my country, and will defend the degradation of the age old culture that defines us.

Ultra-nationalsit: everyone else sucks and should be hanged, including people that are less than 5 generations here.

Not very politically correct, straight fire definition of those groups...

To be fair there must also be those "concerned citizens" - to borrow American term - participating, especially those countering groups described above, but they don't get as much publicity nor controversy.

EDIT #2: Spoiler tags fail to work so I removed some material from post. If you want it just send me PM.

Skybird 01-08-16 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov (Post 2371573)
Nationalist: I love my country, and will defend the degradation of the age old culture that defines us.

Ultra-nationalsit: everyone else sucks and should be hanged, including people that are less than 5 generations here.

According to some French thinker whose name just does not want to come to my mind, you are defining patriotism versus nationalism by that.

Betonov 01-08-16 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2371614)
According to some French thinker whose name just does not want to come to my mind, you are defining patriotism versus nationalism by that.

I always found nationalism tied to one's culture and patriotism to one's country.
In Europe one might equate patriots and nationalists though.

Schroeder 01-08-16 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2371453)
I bet money that this idiot who optimists still label as "police president", already is done.

And he's done: http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/uebergriffe-117.html
:yeah:
About bloody time.:/\\!!
Our country has completely surrendered it's authority on that night and that must never happen again. What does the police have pepper spray, batons and guns for? Oh, I forgot that the left will start crying "police state" if those were to be used...well, now our own people are crying but I guess we'll just have to accept that, tight? Brave new world.:yeah:

The green party already got a new slogan out for this year yesterday:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/al...6138303763.jpg

This can be translated into something like: "For a Europe without isolation."
Is this a case of denial?

Jimbuna 01-08-16 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov (Post 2371573)
Nationalist: I love my country, and will defend the degradation of the age old culture that defines us.

Ultra-nationalsit: everyone else sucks and should be hanged, including people that are less than 5 generations here.

I should imagine every country in Europe has a portion however big or small of its population with a similar mindset.

Betonov 01-08-16 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2371628)
I should imagine every country in Europe has a portion however big or small of its population with a similar mindset.

Yep.
And the other extreme to the spectrum, the ''roll on your back'' and ''let's let everyone in'' left.
But those two sides are interesting to the media.
No one wants to report on those of us on the left that think that a immigration limit should be in place or those on the right that believe that controlled immigration is beneficial to the country. We just don't sell the news anymore.

Skybird 01-08-16 12:24 PM

As I earlier predicted, the police president of Cologne just has been sacked. "Provisional pensioning", they say. "Fired over repeated displays of incompetence and cluelessness", I say.

Right step. Just many months too late.

Skybird 01-08-16 12:25 PM

Ah, Schroeder beat me to it.

Lets not forget that Ralf Jäger, the interior minister of North Rhine-Westphalia who ordered the retirement, is one of those who in the past years became responsible of systematically reducing the police forces and their resources, and pushing forward a policy of underfunding them . Warning of this having led way too far, there are since long time already. The fiscal overstretching of the German "social state" does not help either. What we have here, is the big fox chasing another smaller fox out of the hen house to save his own place in it. Kind of a pawn sacrifice.

Just that this pawn also has deserved it. The fired ex-president has had two major scandals in the past year already. First his police concept imploded in the face of street riots staged by right wingers and Nazis who made police troops needing to flee from them, later internal excesses and politically provocating behaviour by members of a Cologne SWAT team saw him acting indifferent, weak, and entangling himself in contradictions. The damage he leaves behind, is tremendous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder (Post 2371624)
Our country has completely surrendered it's authority on that night

We have also completely surrendered the sovereignty over our state borders, mind you. Not to mention that our great Führerin's policy is an unhidden violation of the German constitution on several paragraphs. All what is being done now only gets done to hide the real dimension of her failure and misjudgement. And thus it will increase the desaster more and more.

As the old grim joke goes: Merkel is Honecker's late revenge on the BRD.

mapuc 01-08-16 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder (Post 2371527)
If I interpret it correctly Tchocky doubts Wildcat's story about having been with refugees for 8 months.

I myself have some problems believing that those people were from Syria both because of personal encounters with some and because of what a friend of mine who is with the "voluntary firefighters" told me. He drove a group of refugees to new homes. He said one could tell the Syrians from all the others simply because they were well mannered, did what they were told to do and were still pretty shaken from fleeing Syria with many showing PTSD symptoms.
However he also told me that he could describe the Afghans in that group with just two words: Asocial Thugs....:shifty:

Correct-I was confused about Wildcats "statement" have through friends friend on FB got a opposite story from these refugee camps

Markus

Skybird 01-08-16 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov (Post 2371619)
I always found nationalism tied to one's culture and patriotism to one's country.
In Europe one might equate patriots and nationalists though.

That French guy I referred to, put it something like this: patriotism is love for thy people and culture, country. Nationalism is hating the others. I think history shows him to be right. Where ever nationalism rose its head, hate against the "other" had much, so very much to do with it.

I can arrange myself with people feeling honestly patriotic. I may not tick like they do, but I still can understand their feeling, and tolerate them, we are not separated by insurmountable differences. But with nationalists I run a zero tolerance policy, Nazi or not, it just is a cosmetic difference. I just cant stand nationalism.

Betonov 01-08-16 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder (Post 2371527)
He said one could tell the Syrians from all the others simply because they were well mannered, did what they were told to do and were still pretty shaken from fleeing Syria with many showing PTSD symptoms.
However he also told me that he could describe the Afghans in that group with just two words: Asocial Thugs....:shifty:

Same sentiment coming from the cops and volunteers at the Slovene border crossings.


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