:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, that hardly seems to be a fair deal. What do I get?

It is not okay with me, and I feel people should be told about the problems that others have expierianced but continuing these topics in this manner only serves to Disproportion that.

With people going on about "Something has to be done." "StarForce is a Virus!" or "A friend of mine had to do this or that!" it leads the majority of the people into a state much like Takeda Shingen described.

I lost some hardware yes, it cost me, no I didn't have the money to replace it, I spent several months working up the funds. YES, I have issues with it!

But it wasn't a PERSONAL LOSS! Computers are doomed to fail one day or another. No system will remain Stable Indefinately.
Educate, say your piece and move on. Stop trying to prove a point and just let people judge for themselves. There are topics much like this one everywhere online so let people read those and make up their minds rather then bring up old ones like this or make new ones.

We Do Not Need More Anti-StarForce campaigns, the ones we have are as annoying a reminder as needed.

As for SF being potentially Dangerous I have no doubt in my mind that it COULD or MIGHT cause damage to someone's machine but that is... as I have said many times in this topic: UNPREDICTABLE!
It is a POTENTIAL risk it DOES have DRM Activities such as Remote Trojan and Ring-"0" there that has beeng said. No more need to bring it up AGAIN.

Lets be clear about this, I do educate and I would move on if SF where honest about the mistakes and cleared up their mess. Instead peeps like myself have had to come along and get other peeps systems functional for them again.

An example of the ridiculously bad tech support SF gives: Click Here to read a thread on Gamespot.

What was Ubisofts reponse to me curing the (Code 41) error for them and SF?

Ans: They shut down the SF thread on the Prince of Persia Section of their forums.

They are perfectly entitled to do that however snubbing the peeps that are saving their collective butts is not very good business sense. Its even worse that in fact I am an online journalist that owns a number of top gaming/tech support sites.

The hardware issues are annoyances and not everybody can afford to replace hardware before its time.

However this does not take away the more serious issue that Ring 0 to Ring 3 level programs access makes Sony's Rootkit look like something out of Kindergarten.

I am seriously trying not to scaremonger here, but lets have an example, I know plenty of Doctors that use their surgery PC's for playing games in the odd few minutes break they may get in an day. Heck they like to unwind just like anybody else.

How would you like your medical records broadcasted on the net or maybe somebody suddenly give you HIV positive status? Do you know how hard it is to get your records corrected?

This is just a minor infringement of Databases however it can be more serious than that.

SF is a Hackers dream, a program used by the industry, silently installed onto Gamers systems and leaves them wide open, no matter how good you’re anti spyware, anti virus or firewall is.

Even if those apps could detect it, SF have deals with every major Security Software manufacturer to ignore SF (This includes Microsoft!).

That may not bother you and that is entirely your own choice, but I fully understand what this means and it goes far beyond being able to run a specific game.

OK NOW HEAR THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The LINK is Fake! Or the info in it is a LIE. Mark never talked to any Magazine......I urge all of you to write a letter and express your concern over this deception.
management@cdfreaks.com


I just got a response from Mark and he said this:

No magazine. I don't know where they got that.




Original Email:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Larry
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:21 PM
To: Mark Russinovich
Subject: Starforce


Hello again Mark...
I read this article http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12970 And Was wondering what Magazine contacted you? I thought it was probably I that was first to contact you. Can you name the magazine please?

Thank you,
Larry

To be more productive with my responses.

DMA step down caused by SF I/O authorisation errors on the IDE channels, (WIn 2000 to XP steps down DMA access speed each time this occurs, eventualy that will drop into PIO mode, rendering playing of DVD video almost impossible and attempts to Burn CD/DVD's with just create coasters, thats assuming you can put up with the 1 to 2 hour burn times in that mode).

Warning not all current CD/DVD drives support PIO mode for any extended period of time. They can interpret this mode as an overburned disk and slam the laser mount into the case, stripping the worm gear and trashing the drive. The only cure for that is to replace the drive.

DMA Step down: (How to fix this)

1. Use the SF removal tool. Click Here to get it.

2. Go to the device manager and (left click) on DVD/CD rom drives,

3. (Right click) on each drive and click uninstall. (cancel the message to reboot)

4. (Left click) IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers.

5. (Right click) the primary IDE channels and (left click) uninstall.

Do the same for the secondary IDE channel (and the IDE controller if its really stubborn).

If no hardware failure has occurred when you reboot, The system will search and reload the drivers, (Reinstating DMA instead of PIO mode access).



(Code 41) in the device manager.

(Code 41) means: "Windows successfully loaded the device driver for this hardware but cannot find the hardware device". In al sense and purposes it looks like Hardware failure.

To workaround this behavior:

Create a restore point start menu-all programs-accessories-system tools-System restore and follw the prompts.

1. Save the filter driver registry entries, just in case of problems, goto start menu-run type in "CMD.exe" without the " " then (left click ok) and at the Command shell prompt type in:

regedit /a SaveFilters.reg HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Class\{4D36E965-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}


and 'hit' enter, that should save the filters section of the registry.

2. using 'notepad' Copy / Paste the following and save it to a NoFilter.reg file in the root , windows or ,my documents folder:

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Class\{4D36E965-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}]
"UpperFilters"=-
"LowerFilters"=-

3. Merge the NoFilter.reg file with your registry or start menu-run type in "regedit /s NoFilter.reg" without the " " and click OK.

4. Shutdown and restart your computer.

If you notice loss of functionality in any remaining DVD/CD-ROM software, you may need to uninstall and re-install it.

Oddly enough you may also need to uninstall and reinstall windows media player.

Should it all go belly up, boot into safe mode and carry out a system restore to the previously saved restore point, or at a command shell type "regedit /s SaveFilters.reg" to merge the previous filters back.

I did say it sounded very "constructive news". For those of us without a legal Dictionary its A polite way of saying 'it was a pack of lies'. :lol:

I do hope it was just a bit of over zealous reporting rather than back handers being thrown their way.

If I get proof to the contrary, then that news site will see what its like to be at the end of a real online journalist’s keyboard. As you already know I am no holes barred, I will rip them to shreds if this is yet more SF propaganda.

REPEATING................


OK NOW HEAR THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The LINK is Fake! Or the info in it is a LIE. Mark never talked to any Magazine......I urge all of you to write a letter and express your concern over this deception.
management@cdfreaks.com


I just got a response from Mark and he said this:

No magazine. I don't know where they got that.




Original Email:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Larry
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:21 PM
To: Mark Russinovich
Subject: Starforce


Hello again Mark...
I read this article http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12970 And Was wondering what Magazine contacted you? I thought it was probably I that was first to contact you. Can you name the magazine please?

Thank you,
Larry






I THINK THIS LINK NEEDS TO BE CLOSED AND LOCKED AND ALLOWED TO DIE!!!! But I urge ALL of you to write CDFREAKS and give them a piece of your MIND!

Thank you!

Larry

Let me ask a question into how many drivers you will see in the device manager once SF is installed. I think I saw 3. Are there more than that? I just want to make sure I got it completely wiped clean. Sorry to change the subject. Just wondering from anybody out there. Please continue your thread otherwise. :-?

Just what in the world makes you think it is a Hacker's dream?

Hackers are above all else AGAINST Coorperate Industry. What you have defined is a 'script kiddie' who uses prewritten code to access exploits.

As for your worst case scenario there. I don't think anyone in the medical field would be allowed to play such graphic intensive games on computers that don't have Graphics Cards. And most medical network refuse to link with privately owned PCs because of the security risk.

you are stirring a panic over something POTENTIONALLY dangerous! A Script kiddie would need several things in order to find, target and attack your PC.

your FireWall may not prevent SF from accessing the net, that is true but a Script Kiddie would need your IP, would need to sniff for what port SF is using and then above all else would need to know How to Exploit the Cy-Door. I don't think SF is handing out the secret to that, by the way. But before doing any of this he would have to know you were running SF and were vulnerable.

And YES, if you use a proxy to web-browse and a FireWall such as ZA it is very difficult to get your IP and most script kiddies look for easier prey. And no Hacker would even bother because using an exploit is no challenge.

YOU CAN PROTECT YOURSELF!

Now that is productive, it didn't sound like another "OMG STARFORCE IS THE NEXT Y2K!"

Yep I do try and cure the issues that get raised as do a lot of other so called anti star force peeps.

Sadly hardware failure and the Ring 0 issue are out of my hands.

The hardware failure is an issue with the manufacturers of the drives or Starforce Technologies over causing the step DMA step down in the first place.

The Ring 0 issue can only be cured by removing SF or by cracking the SF virtual driver so it is no longer needed. Obviously we cannot legitimately do the latter one because of Copyright protection laws. So the ball is in Starforce Technologies court.

The alarming thing is that Starforce Technologies are fully aware of the (Code 41) issue, they did not tell peeps how to cure it. Instead they issued a bogus challenge.

Anybody with even the smallest amount of understanding of the technology knows that the continued PIO mode cause of drive failure is highly unpredictable and almost impossible to trigger on demand.

So the challenge is basically rigged in their favour.

Interestingly they still refuse to take up my challenge against them.

Read pages 1 through 2 of this thread, I posted it somewhere in there.

I never really cared about the Ring 0 situation. The vast majority of gamers log in with admin rights, that alone makes their systems 100% attackable, also on a hardware level. Even in a company environment there sometimes are many Windows installations that don´t use restricted user rights. A virus writer who plans to kill a huge amount of 2000/XP-based PC´s doesn´t need the help of SF and I guess you know that, right?

People are naive if they think that the things you´ve described can´t happen just because SF is no longer on their system. The real danger to a PC are those people who open every suspicious email attachment, who don´t install security updates, who allow all standard XP services to run and so on...

As Mustang has already pointed out, you are spreading panic! You should really try to put things into perspective. Again, once you use admin rights your system is, generally speaking, wide open. Even with restricted user rights and without SF a piece of malware can do very nasty things. There´s no such thing as a risk-free PC.

any chance of changing the thread title now that its been exposed as made up?

Hello,
Gizzmoe, you do not really think that logging in as administrator with all appropriate rights does the ring 0 thing ? SF does that at the most basic system level i can imagine, and no Firewall or virus protection will even inform you about this ("Spybot" and "Hijack this" probably will if configured properly).

Most recent Windows XP security updates did not inform me about this. There is no use spreading panic but it is allowed to call a spade a spade. If some software makes my system vulnerable i do not say "i don't care, there are other programs that also may harm my PC" - what kind of argument is that ?

I am almost sure that the SF company will not use backdoors to spy on my or some company's PC, but it is physically possible for everyone who knows about this. Hackers, ok. Would you call your own government "hackers" if they spied on your PC for security reasons ? I don't think so. I guess SF is not a problem because a game like SH3 or other software using SF copy "protection" is not installed on most company's LANs. At least not where i am responsible for net security lol.

And what really pi**es me off: I know i have to unistall SF when i want to use my burner, this almost has become a rite in a way, but no post here will make me love or buy any software in the future if it fools around with my private property and my PC's capabilities in that way. My private opinion, ok.

Greetings,
Catfish

No, but admin rights gives a virus/trojan/malware the opportunity to install a system driver and then later attack the hardware. For some hardware attacks you don´t even need a special driver, like overclocking the GPU (if the card supports it) or flashing an optical drive. Some boards even allow the BIOS to be flashed under Windows.

My point is simply that this whole thing isn´t black/white, there are many shades of gray. It´s not like "SF installed=everything can happen" and "SF not installed=nothing can happen". Once you start a program that was made to harm your system or was made to spy on you and that your anti-virus/anti-spyware software doesn´t know yet and you are logged in with admin rights you are basically ********d, no matter if SF is installed or not.

Then you have a problem my friend, because software exploits exist in all software. Even Wordpad can be a potential gateway into your computer. Rants like the one here will not make companies rethink their policies, nor will it grow them a conciounse.

All software is exploitable, the only factor that makes this not such a public outrage is that some exploits are less known on a wider base then others. So if that is your attitude towards software you have quite a few companies to continue giveing an argument to including, "All the ones who wrote and published the software on your computer, your OS and all of the companies who designed your hardware because FirmWare is also exploitable." Hence the need for patches every week.

Rants here will not make a company change there policies is true.
But we use this Media type to generate awareness.
And Ubisoft is now aware of this thread.

Please act professional will you?

SC

Yes I fully agree that a lot of people do run with full admin, however they also tend to run with Anti-virus, Firewalls and Anti spyware apps. (Before you jump on me I know some peeps don't have the technical realisation of the dangers to their system if they don't run some sort of protection, that is why XP SP2's firewall defaults to the on position when SP2 is installed and it will keep nagging you if its turned off and you do not go in an set it to a firewall that you will monitor yourself. If you do that without any form of firewall then basically you would not care even if starforce allowed 100,000,000 systems to be killed. So basically your argument is fundementally flawed in its example.

I will say in reply, yes any one with malicious intent can gain access , but why give them a helping hand?

I am really trying to understand your uncooperative attitude?

Do you have vested interest in DRM's?

If not why are you on the defensive?

I ask this because at any time have I forced anything upon you, like "You must boycott starforce"?

In fact I have not!

False information was being posted and by the request of another member I came hear to post the facts. So that those who want to have their systems secure can at least be aware of a security issue.

Your afforementioned response is as much as saying, "Gamers are too stupid so why bother". Personally I think they will be quite offended by such an insinuation.

Excuse me did anybody at anytime say, removing Starforce will secure your system 100% in fact did anyone even pose that question in the first place?

Well in fact no they did not, btw how long have you been a clairvoyant? I am just asking as you seem to know what everybody is thinking without actually asking them...


Spreading panic is only normally referred in such sistuations if such comments are made without processes of correcting the situation being put firmly in place.

Read this thread again.

DMA step down: Howto on correcting this problem is posted.

(Code 41) error: Howto on correcting this problem is posted.

Ring 0: A howto remove Starforce is posted. Due to Copyright Protection laws we cannot legally post a Starforce patch even if we had one. So until SF get off their backsides this is the only cure for that issue.


Now if you had cared to research the information relating to myself you would that I am a Software developer, an online journalist and that I own and run a number of tech support sites. As an example http://www.n-gage-help.com if you look in the forums their, you will see that recently we have added pro and anti Starforce sections. This is so that both sides have equal footing on the arguments that they may want to present. (Which is considerably more responsible than the falsified news report on CDfreaks that this thread refers to)

I have a reputation of being fair and honest in my responses. I would not endorse anything such as a boycott without fully researching possible fixes for the scenario's that have presented themselves.

There is more to this SF situation than is being declared but I will not go public upon that until I have the full documented evidence to support it.

The only thing I can legally state at the moment is look up Carnivore (and I do not mean meat eaters) you can draw your own conclusions from what you find.

Getting back to what can be declared. If SF had come forward and said even off the record, “we are having problems, give us a few weeks to sort this�. Then those of us who understand how the system works would have taken a step back, or as in my case I would have volunteered the technical data to help resolve these problems.

Instead they ignore the issues, release bogus sales spiel in new reports and create a joke of a challenge. In which if you do understand the processes. It’s nothing more than very bad Hacker style PR 'stacked in their favour'.

Let me ask you something, do you not know who Starforce really are?

Do you not remember their black hat days in the 1980's?

Don't get me wrong most of us where black hats in them days, all I am saying is nobody trusted them as far as they could throw them when they where black hats. So it would be crazy to trust them as White hats.

Anyway I have no argument with you, I don’t totally understand your negative stance on peeps trying to help fellow gamers out of ridiculous situation that they never should have been put in, but that negative stance is your choice and in no way am I going to force my opinions upon you.

Again if you choose to run SF with all the risks involved then that is also your choice.

All we are doing is supplying the information so that others who may not know about SF. also have that choice.

As the Games companies and Starforce Technologies never gave them a choice as to if SF is installed on their systems or not.

Please don’t try quoting the EULA, as EULA’s cannot cover security issues, even if they are unintentional, if SF had been above board about this then yes they could have used the EULA as a defence. However that defence went out the window when they resorted to bad pressing and flaming peeps who tried to help other with the SF issues.

You may notice that despite me being extremely high profile. SF has not yet dared to issue such comments about me.