"As the senior surviving Nazi, we're going to lock you up for life, but let your mates off after a few months/years."

Ain't that a bit-. Guy's out of the war in 41, but still does the time that lots of Hitler's other cronies got out of by sticking it out to the bitter end.

Excellent video
 

Excellent point c_t,
Mr. Irving starts speaking 11 minutes in to the video and finishes at the 1hr 12min mark.
This one hour of video is some of the most powerful and revealing and the most
compelling facts of WWII that I have ever heard in my 45 years of study.
The questions asked and answers given can only come from a scholar of
World War II history. But presented in away that honors the truth and truth seeker
as well as a novice such as I.

ZeeWolf

What no one will have a clue about what was true or not.

I suppose you're right in that regard, and to the extent that what's done is done, it certainly doesn't matter much, as Herr Hess is beyond caring about what happens here any longer.

Just curious is all.

Without curiosity, it becomes difficult to handle most things, I want to say that there is a driving force in many situations that you put into its.

It was never about just Hess. It's about neo-nazis and their sympathizers attempting to whitewash their ideologies bloody past and gain a level of acceptability. We should never allow this to occur or we risk unleashing their evil on the world again.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly in regard to the removal of Hess' remains - I didn't mean to give the impression otherwise, and apologize if I did.

I'm just curious as to folks' thoughts why Hess spent the rest of his life in Spandau, when, if I remember correctly, no other convicted Nazi suffered the same fate.

Right here, catching up. And you're wrong about me, at least in this case, because I don't have all the answers. I've seen enough to have the opinion that deniers mostly want Nazism to come back, and even once had the pleasure of talking to a neo-Nazi who insisted that it was all a lie, the Nazis never killed any jews. When I asked what his solution was, he replied "Kill all the lying Jews."

So my question to this guy is the same: Assuming you are right, what is your answer to the problem?

Oh, and Hottentot is doing a great job, so why should I butt in? I haven't even read Mein Kampf. On the other hand I do have a great big book called The Auschwitz Chronical, which contains all the records for the entire existence of that camp. Unfortunately it's currently in my storage. Fortunately I should be moving all that stuff to my apartment tomorrow.

Now I have to risk stepping on some toes, and please remember it's just my opinion. Why is it against the law to deny the holocaust in Europe? I think it's because there is an absolutism hard-wired into the German psyche, that says something must be one thing or the other. I believe that the same gene that led to Nazi intolerance in the first place now leads to absolute intolerance for anything the Nazis did or stood for. I first started thinking this in my early days as a model builder when I would read requests in magazines for German aircraft markings, since European model manufacturers couldn't put swastikas in their kits.

Preposterous? Probably. But my grandmother was from Germany and I see it in myself. But I also have to admit that it's no more likely than horoscopes being true. So I don't know, and no, I don't really believe it. But every time I grind my teeth when someone walks across the street against the light, I wonder about myself.

As to Cosnpiracy Theory, I'll bet he believes this absolutely, and while he tries to get everyone else to question their beliefs, he never questions himself. He's either absolutely convince he's absolutely right, with no room for even a question, or else, as someone pointed out, he's one of our keelhauled trolls returned for some fun.

Hi August,
And what evil are you referring to? The murder of innocent people maybe?
Murder, stealing and wonton destruction with the proportion of out right lies has not even slowed down since the
the effort to "make the world safe for democracy". And that started all most
a hundred years ago.
Most men I know hate lies and liars, as I myself do. But it was those who hate
the truth who cried out "CRUCIFY HIM!" the loudest.

Just something to think about,

ZeeWolf:salute:

So what you're saying is the nazis weren't evil? That other evil people and regimes excuse the nazis crimes?

There is nothing good about nazism or the people who espouse that ideology.

I do not think the nazis or naziism would even be an issue if the truth was as
valued as say - a nations freedom.

What the European facists exposed to the world is how people can be controlled and manipulated with consumate ease. Edward Bernates in 1920's USA understood this concept very well, and was probably the first man to actually put the idea into practice.

Freedom is a confrontational event, it is not just a word. Freedon: I am free to think and speak my mind in a free Nation, without control or hinderance from others.

This is where the problem really starts, yes I am free to think and speak, but when my thoughts and words stat to control others, our freedom is threatened. Hitler and his like studied Bernayes and discovered new ways of controlling people through education and reason. The Nazies where corrupted by their own arrogance, and through them a Nation was corruputed, the result, a second European civil war from which Europe has never really recovered.

I've seen the results of the nazi version "truth" and "freedom" and as far as i'm concerned anyone who espouses the nazi ideology is an enemy of humanity.

You really have to read no further than that.
David Irving:har::har::har::har::har::har:
Bloody loonys

Interesting but totally beside the point. A suppressor of truth is far worse than a "enemy of humanity" they become immediately an enemy of the truth.
Look, the truth will stand forever and therefore can never be destroyed. But on the other hand a lie can be destroyed in an instant and that is why a man like
Mr. Irving is so reviled and despised. The house of fraud that is built on lies will always resort to any and all means to stay standing and applauds deceit and
character assassination etc... :doh:
As far as freedom is concerned it was Jesus that said "Know the truth because it is the truth that sets you free".:up:

As far as the term "enemy of humanity" that's just another Marxist term of
abuse used to denounce and destroy.:DL

ZeeWolf

Except that:

A. Just about any words can be used to denounce and destroy and
B. I'm no Marxist

Why was Hess kept in prison for a longer term than other Nazis? Well, for one thing, he was a symbol of the power of the Nazis (right-hand man to Hitler, party big-wig, etc.) The Allies needed someone as a proof they were hard on the Nazis and their crimes. Hess just happened to fill the bill for their purposes. Add to this the USSR's refusal to go along with setting certain Nazi prisoners free (e.g., Albert Speer, etc.) becuase they felt the need to exact a severe penalty on someone after Hitler died. Also, a lot of the other Nazis became "valuable" to the Allies after the war as the Cold War progressed; InterPol, NATO, various police/scientific/espionage groups and organizations were infested with former Nazis who lent their expertise to both the West and the USSR. Werner von Braun, who designed the dreaded, deadly V-rockets that caused so much destruction to Britain and who used, knowingly, concentration camp slave labor to carry out his projects is a highly considered, if not revered, part of the U.S. civilian and military space history; but the U.S. turned a blind eye when his value exceeded his guilt.

Why is their no "comments" section on the media sites reporting the Hess disinterment? You have only to look at this topic to know the answer. Thus far, the rhetoric has been fairly civilized on this topic; however, the postings here are by people who, for the greater part, know and respect the observed courtesies of this forum. Public media forums are apt to attract all manner of extreme postings of all stripes and of not too respectful or courteous demeanor. The comments were most likely blocked to avoid the manure storm of extreme postings and the need to defend themselves against charges of allowing such postings. It is a simple reason for a simple solution. No conspiracies or malevolence involved; just common sense...

It was also rife in this country, as well. Such public luminaries as Charles Lindberg openly and vocally espoused the Nazi cause in this country and were active in the various American Bund organizations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund

(The above article does not metion Lindberg, but, from a PBS site:

http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/social/antisemitism/

"The other famous American was Charles Lindbergh, who may have been an anti-Semite, but most certainly claimed publicly that Jews were trying, partly through their ownership of the media, to draw America into the war. Lindbergh represented America First, the powerful isolationist organization that, in fact, ejected Henry Ford for his anti-Semitic views.The other famous American was Charles Lindbergh, who may have been an anti-Semite, but most certainly claimed publicly that Jews were trying, partly through their ownership of the media, to draw America into the war. Lindbergh represented America First, the powerful isolationist organization that, in fact, ejected Henry Ford for his anti-Semitic views."

And about Henry Ford [from the same PBS site]:

"By 1939, the anti-Semites had two causes: keeping America out of the European war, and keeping European Jews out of America. And they had two famous men in their ranks. Henry Ford was a true rags-to-riches hero. He was also an anti-Semite, who railed incessantly against "the Jewish plan to control the world" in his newspaper, the Dearborn Independent (circulation allegedly 700,000), which Ford dealerships distributed free of charge. A collection of Ford's ghostwritten columns was published as The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem — a best-seller in Germany."

Ford also kept a framed picture of Hitler on his office desk at the Ford Motor Co.; the photo somehow disappeared after the start of WWII...

And let's not forget Irving Berlin and his song "God Bless America". There was once a movement to use the song in place of "The Star Spangled Banner" as the U.S. national anthem. The effort was cut down over objections that a song written by a Jew would be a sort of desecration in a God-fearing country such as the U.S. It is more than a little ironic to note the singing of the song by members of Congress immediately following 9/11 on the steps of the Capitol and the now common practice of sing the song at nearly every sporting or political event; somewhere, Irving Berlin looks down with a wry smile...

Thus ends my rant, and, to answer any questions, no, I am not Jewish, I was raised a catholic (now lapsed): I just like common sense...

Boy August, I have never had a simple conversation so mis-understood.


Have a nice day:salute:

Funny that's exactly what I was thinking about you.

and you as well sir.

Thank you, vienna, for an answer that was both well-thought out and composed; I hadn't meant to imply that anti-Semitism wasn't happening in America (as you clarified, it was) but meant to focus on that aspect of European - specifically, German and Soviet - anti-Semitism that directly facilitated the rise of National Socialism in Germany, and the confrontation with Leninism-Marxism in the Soviet Union.

Given the technical prowess of men like Von Braun, it does seem to make sense that Hess would be selected to bear the brunt of the punishment in the West - the proverbial fall guy. Which then makes me wonder: was he kept in Spandau because he was a Nazi, or was he kept in Spandau to keep HIM safe from the Soviets?