I think the best thing that could happen for the US atuo industry would be to place them in chapter 11 bankrupcy. They would be able to do some serious overhauling of agreements and managment.

I have never owned a car with an engine capicty of more than 2.0 liters. My current car is a 1997 Ford Mondeo, isn't a performance car by any measure:roll:, but runs well (at least mine does, my wife had the same car and that was a differnet story!), can fit 4 adults - 5 at a pinch - and luggage, and is light on the fuel use (Got 1000km off a 62 liter fuel tank!) .I don't see the need for anything bigger, no kids yet (but the car can cope with a kid or two), don't do any towing or carring any large loads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mondeo#Mk2

Unless The big three can improve there act in what they sell, how they sell it and the industry problems that they have, the cycle will continue to repeat.

I don't think the problem is with the cars they sell, not at all. The big 3 do sell cheap, high mpg cars, as well as family cars, trucks, and performance cars. The major factor in their demise, as I see it, is their labor costs. The unions have grown out of control in Detroit.

Labor costs are certainly a big part of the problem. But there are at LEAST two other big parts as well.

PD

my post was to be taken at the third degre , i apologize if i hurt you it wasn't my intention i was just trying to make a joke . Cheers

Such as the worst auto sales figures in 25 years.

One thing people don't realize is not only have the unions jacked up the wages but they also allow for allot of employees doing jack all day.

That is the bottom line. Union control of the company and managment with poor decision making skills. As you stated, the cars are there. The quality is back IMO. I would not buy any car other than American made. I have had great success with my vehicles beyond the nightmare 1988 Monte Carlo I mention a few posts back. However, that quality vehicle sale point was lost long ago for American carmakers. Getting it back will be a long road. When they make commercials showing the Cavalier as the same quality as the Honda, you have issues. The quality should stand on it' own. If you need to compare you car to the Honda for a sale, why not just go and buy a Honda because to me, the Honda is the standard in quality as the result of the commercial.

What a convinient scrapegoat. It always is the others fault, right?

Well whose fault do you think it is if not the unions?

It is a combination of the following:

ugly cars (some are getting better with exception of GM)
poor quality (seriously improved but getting the customer base back is now very hard)
poor management
union payscale they can not afford resulting from the first three.

Take a look at Toyota and they exhibit none of the above.

i think maybe why the US cars never implanted in Europe it's because they didn't create enough agents , i mean who'll buy a car which with at the lesser problem one'll have to make 200 km to take the car to the garage ..

But none of that contradicts Longams comment about unions. They do tend to be lazy workers. I know this first hand having worked with them over a quarter century.

The entire union system is set up that way.

First off they foster an adversarial situation with management which in itself is a bad thing for the continued success of a company and which often results in poor performers being protected from dismissal.

Secondly. their pay is based on seniority instead of performance, which seriously dampens any motivation to work harder.

Finally their pay and benefits are way above what is appropriate for their job. There's just no way a factory worker earn $80k per year.

don't know how but i'm sure the US car industry 'll overcome this http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/thumbsup.gif

Agreed on all points yet the Union will state otherwise as they did a few days ago. At any rate, the talks have stalled for the bailout...much like GM products. :rotfl:

Completly agreed, unions are part of the problem from all the informations I have. I have no idea if american workers are lazy or not.
I just have a problem with those gents putting all the blame onto these whilst the managers come out with a smile...as usual.

Over here that's certainly not the case considering the overall cooperation of german unions with the state in reforms for the last 10 years to get Germany to become more attractive for investors and realize a lower payscales in general. So far it worked out better then most expected.

That is just it jpm1. My family has owned GM products for over 50+ years. In the 1980's when environmental controls were first implemented on vehicles, quality took a very bad spiral down. Extremely undependable. The foreign makers got a good handle on engineering cars that met the emission requirments and they were dependable. I had replaced countless Holly, Motorcraft, Rochester caborators in the 80's. The rudimentary ROM computers under the dash were garbage. AC/Delco electronics just suck. Throw in some ugly cars and you have a brew for disaster and a family of GM buyers looking elsewhere. We are just one family of millions. Getting back a faithful customer base is very hard. As luck would have it, we have returned back to Ford and Chrysler. They have won me back. GM is on its own as far as I'm concerned.

it seems that you americans talk of your car industry like something that blazes you but you don't realize how lucky you are just sharpen your blades , verify your fire weapons and prepare yourselves to defend one of the America greatest symbol ... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/thumbsup.gif i'm european but i'll be behind you whatever happens

AVGWarhawk your Continental's a top notch car . I love US cars http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...le_triste2.gif http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/sourire3.gif

I will defend the industry but some serious changes need to take place. No one is accountable. Start looking at the successful and imitate that model. Ford and Chrysler are on the right track as far as I'm concerned and I have become a loyal customer. In fact, the Mountineer I mentioned a few posts back I just purchased two months ago. I did not bother looking at foreign or GM products. My wife is very happy gettig the groceries in it:D