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-   -   Next President of the United States (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=141533)

Onkel Neal 09-04-08 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepIron
Yeah, the "Brittany Spears" of politics... SHE SAID NOTHING... folks.

I disagree. Granted, she is the VP candidate and as such will not be setting policy, but she made it very clear she supports an aggresive stance toward terrorism, strong national defence, lower taxes, smaller government, and less spending. That's what I support. :yep:

I disagree.

You disagree that I support those princicples? What?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
The bigger question is can she and McCain accomplish these goals that they have set? All these politicians make these grand claims, yet they hardly ever accomplish them (and Obama is no exception; yet after viewing his voting record in Congress, he has TRIED). Given the stances McCain has taken in the past and present, no. I could not vote for the man. I fear that the failed tactics of Bush would continue under the McCain/Palin administration, and the country would only run further into the ground.

However, I don't think he'll win once the chips are down. He's selected a woman for a VP who has no experience whatsoever in the workings of government, beyond being a governor at the most (and he just met her about two weeks before he selected her as his running mate), her daughter is pregnant at 17, and a lot of McCain's supporters (about 38 million to be exact) have drawn the conclusion that he just selected her to have Clinton's supporters rally around him (which did not work).

However you look at it, something's up. Why would he select Palin? There are/were better choices that he was offered, yet he chose her...:hmm:

I sense a plot involving offshore drilling.

With that said, the election is just two months away. Unless McCain can pull some amazing stunt, it's really not looking too good for him right now.

One last thing, though... how aggressive would he be with terrorism?

Yeah, but her level of experience is still greater than Obama's, and he's the one the Democrats have selected for President. Palin is the VP candidate.

DeepIron 09-04-08 10:33 PM

Who would you want in charge of the most powerful nation on the planet if either Obama or McCain were killed or incapacitated?

I'll choose Biden...

Onkel Neal 09-04-08 10:41 PM

I'll choose Palin...

DeepIron 09-04-08 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
I'll choose Palin...

Ain't democracy wonderful?!:up:

Onkel Neal 09-04-08 11:31 PM

Yeah. Entertaining, too :)

Stealth Hunter 09-05-08 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
You disagree that I support those princicples? What?

I disagree with your choice for who should carry out solving the problems; nothing more.:up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
Yeah, but her level of experience is still greater than Obama's, and he's the one the Democrats have selected for President. Palin is the VP candidate.

How so? Obama is the Senator here; Palin was a governor and a mayor. IMO, Obama would be more qualified for that very simple reason. I have my doubts about Palin's ability to run the country should anything happen to McCain. She hasn't been exposed enough to Congressional politics.

With that said, Joe Biden and Obama seem to get along just fine, and Biden has plenty of experience under his belt. I think they'll make a good duo in the White House.


On a less serious side, it's good to see we're finally getting some clean debating.:)

Platapus 09-05-08 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean_acheson
Maybe you missed O refusing to do town halls with McCain.

Personally I agree with Senator Obama refusing to have town hall meetings with Senator McCain before either of them were nominated.

I would rather there not be any town hall meetings in fact. They demonstrate nothing at all. A formal debate where the candidates do not have the questions before hand (and everyone shows up at the same time) will be much better than any salted audience town hall where loaded questions can be asked.

Town hall meetings are great for one candidate to showcase their position. But it can not take the place of a formal political platform debate.

Platapus 09-05-08 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker
Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus
Alaska ranks number one in absolute federal funding and number one in relative federal funding per capita. .

References, please? <skulks off to attempt to verify claims>

http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?...2008porkpercap

I was mistaken It is Texas with the highest absolute number of earmarks, it is Alaska with the number one per capita. My apologies.

Btw Senator McCain makes a big deal about how he does not lobby for earmarks for the State of Arizona. He can make that claim because he has the other Arizona state representatives do it for him.

http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?...k2008_database

STEED 09-05-08 05:39 AM

Sarah Palin is the new Wonder Women. :D

TDK1044 09-05-08 05:51 AM

The choice is between a man who is half black and a man who is half dead. We'll make history either way! :D

Sarah Palin is impressive.

Digital_Trucker 09-05-08 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Btw Senator McCain makes a big deal about how he does not lobby for earmarks for the State of Arizona. He can make that claim because he has the other Arizona state representatives do it for him.

http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?...k2008_database

Yet Arizona is still the lowest per capita in earmarks. I don't see anything on that site that shows that McCain coerced the other state representatives into doing it either.

Platapus 09-05-08 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker
I don't see anything on that site that shows that McCain coerced the other state representatives into doing it either.


Did anyone say he coerced? I think the other Arizona state representatives were most eager to snuffle in the federal trough. :yep:

Digital_Trucker 09-05-08 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus
Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker
I don't see anything on that site that shows that McCain coerced the other state representatives into doing it either.

Did anyone say he coerced? I think the other Arizona state representatives were most eager to snuffle in the federal trough. :yep:

Perhaps I misunderstood the following?:hmm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus
He can make that claim because he has the other Arizona state representatives do it for him.


Sailor Steve 09-05-08 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
Yeah, but her level of experience is still greater than Obama's, and he's the one the Democrats have selected for President. Palin is the VP candidate.

How so? Obama is the Senator here; Palin was a governor and a mayor. IMO, Obama would be more qualified for that very simple reason. I have my doubts about Palin's ability to run the country should anything happen to McCain. She hasn't been exposed enough to Congressional politics.

Obama is a Senator. That gives him an inside knowledge of how it works, which can be good or bad but does give him experience making laws and glad-handing opponents. Palin is a Governor, which gives her experience at actually running a large group of people and political machinery. Arguably she is better prepared to be president than any of them.

I'm still as up-in-the-air as I was six months ago.

geetrue 09-05-08 01:44 PM

All analytical people seem to have the same problem ...

They are either right or wrong

John McCain is raising up a rare breed of woman to take over when he retires in 2012.

After four years of training under his leadership she will make a fine president.

You just wait and see ... I've heard too many women say it's time someone represents them in the white house, besides the first lady.

Clinton will gloat and say, "I told you so" and run again in 2012.

DeepIron 09-05-08 01:59 PM

Quote:

Clinton will gloat and say, "I told you so" and run again in 2012.
Clinton vs. Palin in 2012: Don't Miss the Cat Fight of the Century! ;)

Tchocky 09-05-08 02:39 PM

VP has to be two things

1 - Ready to take command of the nation at a moments notice. This may be in a state of extreme emergency or confusion.
2 - Beneficial to the ticket.

Regarding Palin, I don't think anyone can make a convincing argument that she's got the requisite familiarity with the apparatus of government. It's worth remembering John McCain's physical state and age. This isn't about being a Washington "insider" or not, it's about knowing immediately what to do and who to talk to. What helps here is a sense of cooperation and compromise. I'm not sure Biden has this, and going on her convention speech, Palin certainly doesn't.

Oh, and is it really beneficial for the VP pick to be dominating the ticket as Palin is now? just a thought.

EDIT - Another thought - will Biden or Palin continue the huge expanse of power and secrecy of the VP office begun by Cheney? Or will the role be phased back to the bucket of spit?

Onkel Neal 09-05-08 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Regarding Palin, I don't think anyone can make a convincing argument that she's got the requisite familiarity with the apparatus of government.

As a big state governor, she has more familiarity with executive administrations than Obama, and his disciples are setting him up to be President, not VP.

Tchocky 09-05-08 02:59 PM

Not disciples, the Democratic Party. It's official by now :p

The familiarity I'm talking about is really of a national kind, a safe pair of hands for insurance. Even relative newcomers like JFK or GWB pick solid, permanent ffixtures like Lyndon Johnson or Cheney. One of America's most active policy areas is foreign policy, and Palin has zero familiarity with any of it. Zero. Obama has at least got legislative experience with the issue, and has expressed substantive opinions.
Having a total newcomer in the emergency seat is unsettling when considering foreign policy/terrorism/war. If Republicans are going to keep waving the bloody shirt about 9/11 they've got to think about Life imitating Bad Campaigning.

The argument over executive experience is messy and strange. There's no quantification of what "executive experience" is supposed to mean, with those making the argument falling back on the sheer amount of time spent at it.

DeepIron 09-05-08 03:00 PM

Personally, I don't think either of them have the prerequisite experience for the offices that they have been nominated for.

Obama is a "first term" senator who hasn't even had the luxury/trauma/opportunity to be re-elected for a second term by his own constituents let alone the "national mob" of US voters. All he knows is that he wants to instigate "change"? Well, what the heck is that? AND.... how is he going to garner support to bring about his "change" NOW... when Americans need it the most. At best, Obama spends 4 years in "job training" and hopefully things don't deteriorate much further...

Palin, while she may be adequate for Alaskan needs (and I'm originally from Alaska so I know a bit about it's politics) she's been managing a huge piece of real estate with a very small population. Sure, theres a huge amount of Federal bureaucracy in AK but she's not interfacing to it directly... Not to mention that bringing the "Alaskan style" of political wrangling to WashDC isn't going to make her too many friends IMO... Telling someone to "suck my oosik" is just, well, baffling (at first)... :huh:


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