Can I change the Guinness for Johnny Walker Blue? I got to have my scotch...no matter the cost. :smug:

I'll add a few things in this discussion, as I see it develops into the wrong direction.

Some GWX team members have an issue with me regarding the permission thingy.
However, last autumn I was contacted by privateer asking why not just start fresh. I was delighted and happy for this move. And I think more should just forget about past issues, because it eats you up, and puts you in worse mood, and ultimately you may write posts, which you regret later.

That said, I would like to remind you that TheRealPotoro aka Potoro has created MultiSH4. Meaning if GWX team members create an Atlantic based and focused SH4, then have this as one installation using MultiSH4 and then try it. On the other hand, if a few or a larger number wishes to make changes to this in a more fair gameplay (=less realistic aka casual play), GWX team members should also be more openminded to help out and accept releases of said tweaks without feeling offended.

Don't forget that there's more in life than games and modding. I'm going to visit my family and see my new-born nephew now. Have a nice weekend to all of you :up:

That's great news.....

for us :p

j\k, enjoy yourself :yep: Mine will be a little later on this summer.


RDP

The reason AVG posted what he did, is this shows a complete lack of understanding of the scope of TMO and RFB. They don't just add new features, they fix a list of bugs and issues so long, I'm not going to list them all here.

Besides their own innovations/changes/fixes, they also combine a HUGE number of mini mods which have been tweaked into one cohesive mod that allows everything to work together seamlessly.

You'd get a more informative responses if you actually listed bugs you knew about that you're wanting to know if they've been fixed. Not meaning to be "persnickity", but GWX isn't the only group capable of fixing bugs.;) In fact, there are a number of fixes and enhancements being done to the U-boats in RFB.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about, try reading through all of the changes, fixes, and mods listed in this thread that have been implemented in various parts of RFB. And keep in mind this post is the "Reader's Digest condensed version". These are only the changes through the 1.4 version. 1.5 changes will be listed with the 1.5 release.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125529

The list for TMO is actually longer because of the scope of the mod.:huh:

If lurker posted a write up of things he's fixed through his campaign mods, it'd be PAGES.:doh:


Maybe if GWX fans didn't make posts that show:
1. They assume no one else is capable of fixing anything but GWX,
2. They haven't even bothered to actually look into the major SH4 mods to see what's been done (see #1)
3. Little to no respect for all the hard work already done by SH4 modders (see #1)

they wouldn't cause a thread to erupt like this one did.:nope:

And BTW for those not modding. Although ref's posts seem to show an "open arms" approach, GWX has not approached any major SH4 modder about cooperation. In contrast, the AOTD guys have been very forthcoming and helpful since their announcement. They even posted an old fix that had been misplaced for everyone outside of AOTD to use . Makes you wonder . . . :hmm:

First of all I think it's a good thing to put old things aside and start fresh, regarding to this particular frase (not personal on you Carotio, but as you brought it to light I wan't to comment on this), we never had problems with tweaks to our mod 8given proper credit, not much to ask if you consider the amount of man hours we put for free in it), either to make it easier or harder or whichever the modder wants to do, what most people don't understand is the complexity of GWX, a small and apparently inocent change in a file could affect gameplay in ways you don't expect, that's one of the reasons we take so long to release something, ie 2.1 upgrade (beeing a minor one) tooked about two months to develop and three or so of testing, even working that way there are a number of bugs that slip away, as we try to take care of all "customers" problems we don't wan't to add other's bugs to our own to deal with, that's why when we see a mod released that could potentially cause problems post a statement that's not officialy supported by GW team and coud break gameplay, otherwhise we get (and has happened, believe me) a thousand complains of GWX crashing or not working and when we digg into the matter found that it was an apparently harmless mod.
I don't deny we had problems in the past with some people (some of which emigrated here), but, to all I beg you please take a good read to the entire threads where our team members post here in the sh4 forum, and decide for yourselves WHO starts the flame wars in your "peacefull" mods section...

Ref

Oh, this is my Easter vacations. I don't even DARE to think of the summer vacations...2 MONTHS without a computer and internet...WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

*DrBeast hands a bottle Of Johnny Blue to AVG, gives the keg of Guinness to RDP, and then puts the thread back on its track, hoping no violent collisions will occur

*** Danlisa smacks up AVG & DrBeast something silly for posting off topic ***

In Fact there is only a few posts within this thread that are still on topic. Perhaps a moderator might like to clean it up a little.....again.:yep:

In yellow

http://209.85.12.227/1396/109/emo/lalala.gif

Seriously, hasn't it been beaten to death enough?

Sorry ref, it's an analogy, and an imperfect one, as all analogies are. I'm not calling anyone a communist here. I am only drawing a parallel between their redefining of terms and the different way the two groups throw the same words around, but mean different things. It happens a lot, where words are exchanged and communication does not take place.

But I am not calling GWX a communist organization or even a communist sympathizer. I haven't seen a single GWXer wearing a Che t-shirt.:doh: If anything, GWX has a corporate model and derives a part of its effectiveness from that. I happen to be a big fan of corporations, so long as they are honest and good citizens.

I'm not attacking anyone. I am just saying that the two ways of getting things done cannot be joined. Please do not mistake me for Ducimus here.:arrgh!:

Not being involved in either side of this, I am perfectly happy to be proved wrong by the future actions of both parties. Nobody should feel bound by the past when the past is a lousy example for a good future. If you and ref are correct regarding GWX's position we have a great future to look forward to.

Building trust will take time, but if pursued in good faith by most, it is inevitable. Right now we seem to have two sides who, while they don't see a way to cooperate, can surely coexist without attacking each other.

People, this is getting really boring... Use your energy on something productive... :shifty:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: That's great stuff there! I do have an unfortunate tendency to swat flies with concrete blocks. But you'll find I'm not particularly offensive about it.

By the way, let me give a shout out to Dowly, the author of the Pearl Harbor Menu 1.0, what I think is the most important mood-setter for the Pacific war yet released. I don't know why it never gets any attention, but it is magnificent! If he is an evil U-Boater, why did he make such a great contribution in the Pacific? hmmmmmmmmm? Hat's off for a great mod by a great modder!:up:

Seriously guys I just can't see what the problem is. There is an expansion on SH4 that includes U-Boats and we are interested in using it and using the game engine of SH4 to create the kind of experience we like in the U-Boat Front. Others like playing in the Pacific using the same game engine but with US Submarines. Both views are fine. We don't have any problem with what other people do and I really don't understand what is the problem with what we said we are going to do in the future. All this mess for what? It was just a statement of intention from the GWX Team that one day we will use SH4 to set up a SuperMod and all hell broke loose. Imagine what will happen when we do make the mod. :doh:

Guys you need to stay a bit calm about all this. First of all it's just a game so no need to get worked up for something so trivial like this. Second So what if GWX is not working with other moders. Each can do whatever he (or she) likes. Each can chose his partners and the people he can and want to work with. The GWX Team never said anything about other people's approach to the game. We make a game the way we like to play and the way we enjoy it. If people like it great and Thank you very much. If people don't like it well what can we do, we did try but we will enjoy it because this is the kind of game we like to play. Nobody forces anyone to play our mod and nobody forces anyone to follow our way of thinking. The situation is very clear: If you like GWX go ahead and enjoy it. If you don't like GWX you have three options:
1. You tell us (with examples and in a reasonable manner) what is that you don't like and we might fix it (if we think you have a point or if it is possible).
2. You alter the core GWX files to suit your kind of play. Again if you approach us in a reasonable manner most probably you will get a lot of help in this attempt.
3. You throw GWX to the rubbish bin and you play the mod(s) of your choice.
It is that simple.

Now based on the fact that we continue this argument it means that either the GWX Team is trying to score some points or that some people cannot accept reality. Let me elaborate on this: Why should the GWX Team try to score points? Each version of GWX has more downloads (individually) than all the other mods combined. Just based on statistics you can see that the majority of SubSim and SH users chose freely (trust me nobody puts a gun on their heads) GWX as their mod of choice. From this you can come to the conclusion that either the GWX Team has done a "decent job" (I would have said great but let's not push it for now) or all these people are manipulated and cannot see the truth that GWX is a crappy product. Somehow I don't really get the argument of "mass manipulation". If I could manipulate the masses I would have made loads of money and I wouldn't be here arguing these points with you guys.

Thought you were leaving the country Koffi :hmm:

Dont you have some packing to do

:rotfl:

I am leaving it's true but i can't go without a BANG ;) :p :rotfl:

Now back to do some packing :cry:

You have a point there, but we do not control the "fans" as you call them, we only are responsible here for the mod we make and our comments, don't be confused, not everyone with a GWX pic on the signature are team members.
1. GWX team don't assume is the only capable of fixing things, proof of that is that we asked other modders premission to use their work in our mod in our mod.
2. Why do you think that? there's a lot of excellent work made by sh4 modders, but as we're going to focus in the Atlantic theatre there's little we can use except for environmental mods.
3. Again when do we (GWX team) show disrespect for SH4 modders (in general, there are a couple for which I don't have the slightest respect at all, but that's a personal matter), please be concrete and post some links to GWX team members started posts diminishing SH4 modders.

@Skjwaster, I now that it's a bit boring and redundant, but as we are here to stay, whoever likes it or not, I think it's better to release all our angers and dislikes in one single thread an then let it all behind.

Ref

Don't forget your hat http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412...uplargeon1.gif

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/2074/unhelmetex4.jpg

Pah! concrete blocks.....try an MP5, you get a lot more bang for the buck http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/604...o07qhy9zv2.gif

It's always a pleasure to interract with reasonable and rational folk here http://imgcash2.imageshack.us/img91/817/ideaps5.gif

Just a little word if I may......keep a watchful eye out http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img144...s0153fqgl6.gif and I reckon you'll soon come to the conclusion that the GWX Team only respond when provoked. I'm sure that is a right all of our American cousins hold most dear in their democracy.

Have a beer matey http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...leys/lager.gif

The rums mine


http://www.abfnet.com/forum/images/s...rum_lg_blk.gif

We should concentrate on our motivation to create a great submarine simulation.We all should work together so that we can enjoy our hobby. I cannot understand why people are "flaming" each other. There is no advantage in "flaming" just the loss of time. And time is what we need to finish our work.

Why do we mod? First of all we would like to have changes in the actual submarine simulation. Mostly this changes are based on individual desires or the supposition that some details of the sim could be different maybe better.

More over we want to share our work with the community where we think that these changes finds support.

The result is that the intention of the modders and community are one and the same: To enjoy a great subsim!

So lets back get to work..

Our boats are waiting in the drydock..;)

See you at or below the sea!

Your CaptainNemo

PS: Sorry for my bad english . .