Nop... :hmm: it is the speed at wich your sub will be destroyed by pressure. :up:

May be in SH III works in that way, i cant remeber now.. but into SH IV it is the speed at wich the sub is destroyed by pressure.

Have you changed your values?

For instance I see that Gato class has the crash time value 2.

If you have changed yours - what did you try out?

Thanks!

Redwine is correct - it is the speed at which your hull fails under pressure.
I have tested everything from the stock 2, all the way down to to .001

The only thing this buys you is time - is slows down pressure damage. Battle damage will kill you just as quick as it did before.

Pressure damage only damages the hull. It is the only thing that isolates damage to the hull alone.

I will say this again. The hull is not broken. The hull works very well. The hull is predictable. The hull never causes any problems - it just works until it fails. The only problem with the hull is that you do not see its damage unless you save and look at the save file. I would not even care about that if everything else worked, but right now it is info needed to troubleshoot. Too many people are talking about hull damage and never even looking at a save, which is the only place you can see it factually.

The things that do not work predictably are inside the sub.

Battle damage includes both the hull and the contents of the sub. It is not isolated damage (typically). There is a ton of confusing the behavior of the contents with the hull. If you isolate the hull damage using only pressure - it NEVER acts weird, it just gets weaker. You just have to remember that it is getting weaker. The only odd thing is that you have to surface to stop damage once it starts. Once you do that, hull damage stops until you go too deep again. The systems and compartment damage cause all kinds of complications and are never predictable.

There is also unrepairable damage. These are damaged components that never get moved into the DC queue for repair - lost cause damage. This is understandable and workable, even if it would have been nice to have it labeled as destroyed or degraded.

Then there is recurring damage. Fix the AA and next thing you know it breaks utself again and wounds crew as a bonus. This is just plain buggy.

Additionally, there is phantom damage. This damage occurs when DC claims to have repaired everthing. The save files show NO damage to the hull OR the compartments OR the equipment. But the boat will not trim or dive without sinking. Phantom damage is probably the most annoying thing I have encountered in the game.

In short Damage Control needs damage control. Badly.

Ubones has it dead to rights here - damage control is wacky.

I have not seen the "ghost damage" where everything is zerod out and I still die - but that doesnt mean it aint there!

The biggest issues I have seen with Hull damage is lack of notification - you have to have SOME clue how deep your new "crush" limit is - and the weird way it models hull damage affecting bouyancy. In some ways that modelling is good - but I cant see why any dive at 50% damage to hull results in the death spiral. Something wonky there.

As for internals - there is some sense to HOW things get damaged - bulkheads take the majority of damage - the rest is overlayed semi-randomly. Fixing them however is where things make no sense. If we had some way of working with the bulkhead strength - or its relation to the hull damage assessed (is it 1:1?) then we could understand and tweak it perhaps. So far, there doesnt seem to be a way to modify bulkhead "strength" though.

One thing I have seen that I dont understand is the "no damage but my engines dont work" issue. Anyone got a clue as to whats causing this? I havent been ably to replicate it - but my thoughts are that any piece of equipment over 50% damage - is inop? If so - the code is doing some really horrible rounding off of damage - but this would also explain why "50%" is the death dive mark for hull damage as well.......

Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

This is exibited by loss of trim and heavy boat. You don't die if you can make a surface run back to port ;)

This is a misunderstanding. You were correct until the 50% hull = death spiral. comment. You can have a hull damaged well over 50%, and as long as you surface to reset the damage flag, you can go back down for hours on end as long as you don't cross the unknown breaking level. (risk taking not advised). True hull damage is very stable once you surface and get it reset.

Bulkheads have HP just like any other piece of equipment in the upc files. The temptation to buff things up is great - but you have to remember that that unbalances other things. Better to figure out how things interact first. Besides buffing the bulkeads does little - they still stink.

I have seen the dead repaired engines once. The 50% rule you are proposing usually does not hold true. I wish people would quit saying they have 50% hull damage without knowing if they even have any. If you don't look at the save file you don't know. 50% hull damage is easily survivable, and it does not even cause difficulty holding depth at stop... The hull is the most predictible and sane acting piece of the sub damage control picture.

Just because the bulkheads say "hull damage repaired" or such, everyone thinks they have had hull damage. That string is as stupid as the "out of oxygen" message you got when you surfaced in 1.1...

Hull damage is NEVER repaired at sea.

Greetings Redwine,
Sorry so long in replying to this but I work 8 hours a day and then when I get home I have other things to do besides sit and play .... of course when I turned on the game to check the information you required, I got caught up in playing. So I finished the mission from where I saved it before I attacked the afore mentioned convoy and made it back to Fremantle. (That's tonight's mission.)

As for the mission you quoted, I'm in a Salmon class sub. This was our first mission in the boat as I was promoted up from my previous porpoise boat.
USS Seal be the name of my current boat.

Again I checked damage status prior to initiating the mission tonight and there is nothing showing that was predamaged. During the mission of the night before which we are talking about, the DCs never got near enough to even damage the deck guns, there was no advertisment of damage at all by the crew at any time.

I set the game to play in meters. I personally think that the math works better since meters was probably the default calculations by the Romainian programers. (?)

I was at 80, then dropped to 100 and was good at 100 for a good 35 - 40 minutes real time and I was pulling away from the convoy and the remaining DDs looking for me. I was at least a mile or better from them when the catastrophe happened.

(It didn't happen tonight though.)

I have taken damage for no reason as well, several times. I have learned to save early and save often. The last one was I just dropped off an operative, and was heading out to sea, and on the surface. I got the message we are taking damage sir, nothing on the radar, nothing in sight, and no visible explosions, I was on the bridge looking around. My only explanation was maybe mines, but there was no explosions. I was not sinking, although every system was red, I did not stick around I just reloaded, and went out the same way, and no issues.

Yes, i am using 0,1 for balao, 0,2 for gato, 0,3 for the remaining.

We need the hull damage percent back... if posible, because it can be hardcoded, or during the time to discover it, we need to take in account, when we take damage, we MUST NOT overpass anymore that INDAMAGE depth.

:hmm:

Yes i had that issue, more than one time.

No visible damage of any kind, all items repaired, and no propulsion, no engine damaged, no proppellers damage.... nothing. And no diesel propulsion, no battery recharge.

I was looking to set diferential hitpoints to the engines, so when a depth charge explodes and damage them, not equal damage must be taken by the engines, and you can preseve almost some of them working.

Into the .cfg the engines has hitpoints for port and straboard, but seems to NOT works, the hitpoint seems to be now into the .upc files, and there... there is only one entry for all diesel or electric engines. :dead:

Did some body tested tweaking the Maintenance coheficient ?

May be with a better maintenance coheficient we can support the hull to maintain depth for an emergency for more time ?



Yes one thing we must to do is to change that "string"....:down:

100 is too near of your "NON damage" crush depth, it will be most near or even under your new crush depth if you had teaked damage.

I assume you are ussing the recomended setting into the discussions into this forum about the crush depths, 1.5 of the test depth...thats correct ?

Then your non damaged sub crush depth is 114 meters.

I adjusted the red needle at 100m for my Salmon Class, 14m before the crush depth i am ussing...

May be.... only may be....

The original crush depth.... 76 meters is still working ?

SH IV surprise us with repetitive setting values into diferent files, a waste from SH III, but many of them seems to not works...

When we change the crush depth into the .zon file....

May be... only a supouse...
We are changing the non damage crush depth.... but...

What if some file... or hardcoded file says, when you have 50% hull damage your new crush deth is half.... but not half of the new crush depth we had adjusted unto .zon files... half of the original 76m one :huh::huh::huh::huh:

May be hal, may be one third but the original 76m....


May be posible ? :huh::huh::huh:

I note when i take damage... i always loss the sub if i attempt to go under the thermal layer 55m....

It is the half of my adjusted 114m crush depth, or about 1/3 of the original 76m one....

Redwine - thanks for the info on my 50% theory. On the death spiral - thats weird because I do open my save files and anything over 50% causes me to spiral when I dive.... Perhaps I have changed something else that I need to change back.

Your dead right on bulkheads - I found it last eve and fiddled with it - did very little - less bulkhead damage as a percentile - but still took the same amount of time to fix.

I will be tweaking a bit on a number of things. Will update as I can - but I think one issue is I noted my last install I went to 1.1 instead of 1.2 and that likely screwed up my testing results. GRRRR :damn:

Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

Thanks a lot for tweaking and testing, guys! :up:

Redwine,
I have not modified any values from the stock files with regard to my boat performances. With the exception of the "green button" mod I don't think I have anything else added so it's all stock here.

The red crush needle was all the way to the lower right of the gauge when I set my depth for 100m. Even so, if you're sayng 114 was crush then I was still 14m above that so I never should have had a problem. Theoretically.

Nop...nop... 114m is a modified value many of us are using, due to some research int he forum.

Stock value for salmon was, if i dont remember bad, 250ft or 76 meters.

But many commnts in the forum tal about the USA Navy uses 1.5 security coheficient... so many of us rise up the crush depth to 114m.

Here into SH IV as before into SH III, the dev team confused the test depth with the crush depth.

If you rwally are using stock value... if you go to 100m, it is correct you crush...

OK waiting your test !! :up:

Well crap!

Well apparently so. Next question, why was I able to stay at 100 for 20 minutes live time with no problems?
And where do I find the modified values for the boats?

May be your crash speed is too low... wich value are you using ?

It's all stock.