I couldn't read through all that anti-vista stuff but one thing I did hear is that they are going to make a version of directx10 that works with xp .. so you won't have to get F'n vista to play dx10 games

just something I read on a tech site.

wamphyri

You have been misinformed.

On October 16 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35110 claimed that DirectX 9.0L would replace 9.0C to allow DX10 applications to run on XP. That claim was spurious and was retracted on 17 October (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35140). DX9L will only run on Vista. There is no DX10 for XP. That would require non-trivial modification to XP and Microsoft aren't prepared to do it.

It's a changed quote by James T. Kirk in the final original series movie (ST6:Undiscovered Country). And my statment is true 100%. Don't ask for an explanation!

Don't you just hate that! (More explained in the next paragraph)

I have the same problem all the time. How to convince people that there is other, free software and it's better then the on MC offers! I have a small dislike for people that don't understand computers and an almost raging hate towards those who say:

and to all who are "file, save as" guys. It means they know what file, save as will do in MC word, but aren't sure in Excel, Power Point, or any other programe. Yes I'm intolerant :nope:

Hate to jump on the wagon, but that's my main argument on using windows. Reading this thread I have seen the bad in my ways and will make a dual install soon.

On the side note. I'd rather give, for ex. Gentoo, 20$ and they deliver to my mail a DVD with a workable 64bit OS and with a gazillion of pre-compiled programs so that I don't have to download them and compile them (takes time).

I agree with P_Funk. The thread took a way into a debate on Vista (I admit the fault I did, but some good came out of it anyway), so we debated. Why make another thread when this one works just fine.

Again not bad feeling towards you, but you effectivly closed your own comment. You admited that MC is JUST NOT WILLING to take the extra step towards more pleased customers.

Slovenia joined the EU in 2004 and at school we have computers that came with a pre-installed Linux (Slovenian language). Noone uses Linux, but it means that some public organisations/institution are comming to their senses and that Open Source is more spread then others.

No, I didn't, but your fervid irrationality isn't worth wasting time on.

Ignoring the pointless comments of those who want us to stop bursting their Windows bubble, I'll add that Windows is only truly effective in the private market and where contracts exist. Where some companies have an agenda in supporting Windows rather than a better alternative.

A few tid bits of info. I'll start with the story of an American Naval vessal (a destroyer I think or something similar) that was being retrofitted with a new computer system. The engineers wanted to use an open source program to power the ship's computers but the brass above forced them to use a Microsoft one. The best part was when while out in the seas the ship's computers crashed and the ship was redered adrift and was forced to be towed into port. I wonder why the Navy forced the usage of a Microsoft system over a better open source one?

Then there are the small little stories about open source such as the fact that a greatpart of the internet is powered by Linux servers and that all kinds of governments and businesses are using Open Source software. I think one of China's sattlelites is powered by a l inux computer.

It's obvious to me that windows is a very narrowly functional program and that it's sufficient for only home PCs and that it could change quickly if people actually woke up and had some cajones for change.

The only problem I have had with vista is the fact its a power hog. I mean has anyone looked at the requirements? You need show much power and Hard drive space you matterwise forget playing any games because vista is taking all your video and processor power.

Want an example as to why I loathe Microsoft and Windows?

If you happen to have Windows set up for automatic updating (which for the most part I do recommend) you might not be aware that MS has decided that IE7.0 is a 'high priority' update. This means that it will automatically install on your pc if you have your pc set up for automatic notification and updating.

Now, if you do a bit of hunting you'll discover that, at some point a while ago, MS kinda announced (albeit without a great deal of fanfare or notice) this little factoid. They also provided a downloadable 'toolkit' for preventing IE7.0 from being installed via automatic updating.

(Should you be curious, the toolkit to do that is located here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=4516A6F7-5D44-482B-9DBD-869B4A90159C&displaylang=en)

Now here is where it gets interesting: when you download, then run, the file, you'll first get a prompt asking to accept terms and conditions (I've no problem with that) but then get a prompt to "Please type the location where you want to place the extracted files".

Eh?

Files?

I just want to block IE7.0 from installing on its own. I need files!? (yes, files; plural) to do such a simple task?

Evidently yes.

Well, let's read the instructions for install on the original page where I could download the toolkit (go ahead and do so now if you want several good laughs; if you're feeling lazy here is the entire set of instructions: "Click on the link to download the package and select ‘Open’ to run the package. You will be asked to accept the end-user license agreement (EULA) before you gain access to the package components." Quite helpful, eh wot?)

Well, as they've helpfully supplied no suggested default location (the entry box is blank) at least they've given me a 'browse button'. So let's click that, and choose desktop; always a pretty safe bet.

Click OK after that, and whoo-hoo! Extracted files!

And yes, it is files. Four of them to be exact: one .jpg file, useful only if you're an admin responsible for multiple systems; one .adm file --a Group Policy Administrative Template-- again useful only for admins responsible for multiple systems; one .htm help file . . . which isn't additionally helpful, as it's simply a partial section of the original toolkit download page; one .cmd file.

So boys and girls . . . which one are you supposed to use?

Logical process of elimination will leave you with the .cmd file. Click it, see it flash and blink, and the jobs finished! IE7.0 now will not automatically replace your current browser!

Errrr . . . no.

See, here's the fine print: "The script creates a registry key and sets the associated value to block or unblock (depending on the command-line option used) automatic delivery of Internet Explorer 7 on either the local machine or a remote target machine." [emphasis mine]

Have I lost you yet?

Here's a bit more of an explanation, and again I quote from their site and file:

The script has the following command-line syntax:
IE70Blocker.cmd [<machine name>] [/b] [/u] [/H]

Simply clicking on the extracted command file (IE70Blocker.cmd) won't do diddly-squat all on its lonesome. It needs to have one of the above command-line options included.

Well, we're not going to let this beat us, are we? Nopers!

So let's just copy that ol' file name " IE70Blocker.cmd", then click "Start-Run" and paste it there and run it. Hmmmmm . . . error message; Windows can't find it.

Undeterred, lets browse and find it. We do remember where we extracted it to, yes? Ah, there it is . . . select, click OK and add that command-line option thingie . . . oh wait . . . it just blinks and never gives me the chance.

Well, let's add the /B in the run box dialog and . . . --sighs-- . . . error message; Windows can't find it.

Now perhaps there is another way of doing this, but let me tell you how I did so after reaching this point. I ran 'command' (enter 'command' in the run dialog box; you'll get a DOS-type window pop up) typed in IE70Blocker.cmd and hit enter.

Oh joy: it tells me that IE70Blocker.cmd is not recognized blah-blah-blah. So now I have to, manually, via keystrokes, change my current directory so that my desktop directory is current. You all know how to do that in command, yes?

Considering that MS rammed GUI down our throats, I would find it difficult to believe that one out of a hundred understand how to operate their pc using command instead of the graphical interface of Windows.

I'm not even finished, but I don't feel I really need to continue. I'll just recap:

In order to perform a simple (and reasonable) task --that of choosing to block an automatic update and install of IE7.0-- Microsoft has created a toolkit that the vast majority of the users of their software will have no idea how to get it to work. Worse, because it appears to work (clicking the .cmd file has a small window pop up and vanish within an eye blink, and with no accompanying error message stating the operation either failed or was incorrectly performed) most people will assume they have blocked IE7.0 from installing.

What a rude awakening they will have.

I began this with the simple statement of "Want an example as to why I loathe Microsoft and Windows?" Hopefully this will help explain.

I've worked with many operating systems in an IT career spanning more years than you've been on this planet. None of them have been perfect. I first used (Berkeley) Unix at uni in the early '80s. Why Linus Torvalds chose to resurrect this dinosaur, which saw the light of day in 1969, is beyond my understanding, but be that as it may. This is not the place for a detailed discussion of operating systems.

I mention it in passing to put in perspective the absurdity of your claim that a 19 year old with no IT qualifications or real world experience is somehow going to burst anyone's nonexistent "Windows bubble". Come back with 25 years of IT experience under your belt and we might have something to discuss, but right now all I see is teenage arrogance. I've sunk the boot into Microsoft more than a few times over the years ever since I was working with MS-DOS back before you were born but I have sufficient maturity to also give Microsoft a pat on the back when it's deserved.

If you and your cohort truly want to advance the cause of Linux you do yourselves a disservice with your complete lack of balance and your propensity to exaggerate both Microsoft's failings and Linux's merits. My elder son, who is a tad older than you and is just finishing his honours year in his Comp.Sci degree, is currently using my old PIII as a Linux server, but I'm pleased and proud to say he is aware of its weaknesses as well as its strengths and he doesn't need to try to make himself feel superior by denigrating things he doesn't truly understand. You would do well to do the same.

Just what I needed, an old man telling me that since he is an expert and that I am a mere child, albeit with voting rights, what I have to say is meaningless! Well I really can't stand older people that seem to need to be my grandfather.

I never said Microsoft or Windows is wholly inadequate but I'm not going to congratulate Microsoft just cause your experience says they are splendid and not as evil as all us young rapskallions say.

Oh and I like the part where you decide to tell me that you are to universally qualified and that I have no basis from which to form an opinion while you decide not to refute my allegedly immature claims with hard proof but only with an equally arrogant game of lets see who's birth certificate is older.

If I'm so off base and you are so damned correct I'd like to see you go through it all and tellme why I'm wrong. I hate people like you that say "oh you don't know anything" and make that the sum total of your argument.

Lets see some of that IT experience in action please. And if you have no patience to enlighten me nor any desire to actually argue in a fair way then I see no purpose in you actually making any comments on what I have said. I may be young but I know the conventions of polite conversation and the "rules" of argument. Play or sod off.

As I said, this is not the place for a detailed discussion of operating system design. However, I will point out how your desperate need for a course in Logic 101 makes trying to discuss anything with you pointless.
As I am qualified in Comp.Sci and have over 25 years of experience in the profession, I am entitled to claim some expertise (as I did). That does not mean I am an expert, merely that I have the advantage over someone with neither.
Since you have neither qualifications nor extensive experience on what basis other than wishful thinking are you arguing?
What you really seem to hate is anyone who knows more than you do.
I didn't say that.
I didn't say that.
I've already refuted the false or exaggerated claims about Vista made in this thread, which is what's relevant to this topic.
I didn't do that.
That pretty much sums it up, but I doubt you'll see the irony in your own words.

Well that was a petty example of your arrogance. Very good use of the "I didn't say that" line. Very good indeed. Apparently you can draw conclusions from what I say but I however cannot in regard to what you say. I see that lovely hypocrisy is also lost on you. And I think people can make a little exaggeration for effect without you saying "that isn't a direct quote!". But nevermind since you obviously are at that stupid point where there is no argument. You're just taking the piss out of me and we are way beyond facts. And if what I say, aside from whats directly relates to the original tag line of this convo, is of no concern of yours why do you persist in asserting your "realtive" superiority, I'm sorry not "expert" authority?

Potoroo!

People like you mkae me feel all warm and cudly from the inside. Which usually means I'd blow their fraking heads off.

Just beacsue we are younger and don't have years of experience, doesn't mean we are not intitled to an opinion which may/or may no be right. You on the other hand want to force us into keeping quite, keeping your lovely little world safe.

I respect my eldars, I have been brought up to do so, but with you, I (read: WE!!!) can't talk with. You degrade us, because we are younger, but in fact your showing that all you years as a living being haven't tought you respect and admitance that someone might be right afterall.

This thread is going toward flaming and I would ask both parties (Potoroo, me and P_Funk) to stop right now, as I have a REALLY bad feeling and things might just get too hot.

On the contrary, I'm the first to acknowledge I can be wrong. However, when a couple of teenagers make out they're going to "save me" from my non-existent "windows bubble" or dismiss what I say as "pointless" presumably because I haven't accepted Linus Torvalds as my personal Lord and Saviour I take exception. Quite frankly I doubt either of you would know a well designed operating system if it leapt up and bit you. At the end of the day Linux is just another Unix and Unix has never been on my list of good operating systems. Put it down to my being spoiled by VAX/VMS during my days at DEC if you like but at least I've got something to compare it against. What have you got except a fanatical and faddish dislike of Microsoft?

Lets all play Nice
 

While I might not be an Operating System guru as some people in the world are and might not know as much about things in the world as these people and while I have respect to all the people who have posted in this thread and their views I believe it was about SH3 and Vista can this thread please be brought back on track and a potential Flaming War be averted.

Knowledge that one day the so called "humanitarian" Bill Gates will get nailed down and all will be good. The only future is a free future!