What I haven't seen, is that super nice looing freighter on the steam trailer... :hmm:

hm... that reminds me... hey XabbaRus, the upgraded models upcoming anytime soon? Ramius is showing off his toys again with a Typhoon on the General Forums.

Fair enough, i think i'll wait for a bit and see what others come up with.

Ok I figured out the rudder thing.

I did some testing for the past 10 min and got some details. If you do a left or right full rudder the speed of your ship will be a factor in what happends. For example, if your going 30 knots or more your sub will dive out of control, but if your going 25 knots your sub will dip 54 ft in depth from the force of the water at that speed. I did testing on all the speeds and here were my results while diving the 688(i) class.

1 kts - 0 ft dip
2 kts - 0 ft dip
3 kts - 0 ft dip
4 kts - 1 ft dip
5 kts - 2 ft dip
6 kts - 3 ft dip
7 kts - 4 ft dip
8 kts - 5 ft dip
9 kts - 6 ft dip
10 kts - 8 ft dip
11 kts - 10 ft dip
12 kts - 11 ft dip
13 kts - 13 ft dip
14 kts - 15 ft dip
15 kts - 18 ft dip
16 kts - 20 ft dip
17 kts - 22 ft dip
18 kts - 25 ft dip
19 kts - 29 ft dip
20 kts - 32 ft dip
21 kts - 35 ft dip
22 kts - 39 ft dip
23 kts - 44 ft dip
24 kts - 49 ft dip
25 kts - 54 ft dip
26 kts - 59 ft dip
27 kts - 59 ft dip
28 kts - 59 ft dip
29 kts - 59 ft dip
30 kts or more - Dive out of control.

Thanks for pointing out it was intended JSLTIGER, so its confirmed this is not a bug and is a realism factor within the game.

:rock:
Wolfy

You didn't mention the degree of course change? 180 degrees? 90 degrees?

My finding is that the AI does a decent job at flank speed of maintaining depth as best as possible, without "loosing control"

those results I posted were for left or right full rudder and what happends im sure different degrees of your rudder would change what depth it will push you do but I wasnt going to go through and test every angle for every knot so I just did the maximum depth it will put you at for each knot (useing full rutter) this way you have a basic idea what might happen for the speed your ship is traveling at. This can save you if your near crush depth or in shallow waters while trying to evade torpedos with a full rutter since youll know the maximum dip in depth your ship is going to take at that speed.

Wolfy

What I meant was... did you order right/left full rudder and then let the ship turn in circles for 5min or did you order a right/left full rudder and then rudder amidships after 90 degree course change...

... the difference being that if you order a full rudder and then let the sub continue to turn for a long while of course it will affect the diving depth more than if you order the full rudder and just did a quick short turn... does that make sense?

Oh sorry,

What I did was order a right full rudder and let the ship turn in circles and let it dive to its deepest depth and then recorded how many feet below my origonal depth (200ft) my ship stayed at while going around in circles. Once you order Rudder Amidships your ship will level off and come back up to your orderd depth. (for me it was 200ft)

If you did a short turn you would begin to dive but once you order rudder amidships you will come back up to your orderd depth. So even if you were going 30+ knots and did a right full rudder and dived out of control you could turn 180 or 90 degrees and order rudder amidships and it would come out of its dive and recover at your origonal depth. This could be a good tactic when avoiding torps, you could purposly make your ship dive out of control to try and shake the torp and then recover from it. Its also good because I think your ship will dive faster then if you tryed to normally dive.

Wolfy

I don't understand why people think that maneovering a 9000 ton object going 35 kts at 1500ft should be an easy thing that's not possible to foul up. ;)

OK. Here's my little quirky scenario. Seawolf SSN, 900ft. depth, All Ahead Flank. Ordered left 30 degrees rudder. I begin nosing down excessively. After passing 1400 ft., I order "Emergency Surface".

I look in the 3-D window and I'm rising to the surface near vertical and movement is trending reverse (backwards). Should that be correct? Tail is also higher than the nose. Just wondering if anybody else see's this.

My thinking is if I've got momentum forward of 40 knots, I shouldn't be going backwards after a few seconds after blowing ballast tanks. I may be wrong, but I'd like somebody else's opinion.

Sea Demon

My '2 cents' having just DLd :-

Thanks SAS for delivering on time and as promised. :up:

The dive/turn rate 'new' sub performance should be fully tested in extremis torp avoidance situations before
any definitive critical conclusions are drawn. :hmm:

Savages_Wolf made a good point about ''good tactics when avoiding torps.''

Not to change the subject or anything, but who the heck is SAS?? :hmm: I thought Sonalysts was SCS.

Folks, that is what I talked about when I said FAST and ABRUPT depth excursions. This is MUCH better than pre-patch. Still not fast or hard enough, but this is a Sim and not real life.

This is why you do not toss a large rudder angle on at high speeds. It is not about the AI maintaining depth control. You flat out CAN'T maintain depth control. If you are shallow enough and catch it quick enough, you can recover. If not? Its loss of ship time.

Anyone out there fly airplanes? You know what the performance envelop is? Well, Subs have one too because of things like this. We have depth/speed envelops for causalty recovery reasons. This being one of them. And before you ask: I wil not elaborate more on this particular topic.

That is why I brought up the too much rudder comment. The AI by default throws on a hard rudder to all ordered course changes. What if you are doing a sprint and drift while deep and this happens? By the time you remember (or react) it is beer can time.

Sea Demon: Raising stern first is what it would do in actuality. You are pointed down and when you do a EMBT blow, you blow fore and aft together. If you are stern up then you are going backwards to the surface. Given enough time and depth the ship MAY level out but probably not. As for the speeds speed, you ever take a board and submerge it at the bottom of a pool? You let go and it rockets to the surface? Same principal.

SCS - BANG ON. Great work.

I have a question, did you change the rate of speed increase for a flank bell vs all other bells? It seems to accelerate faster when you order a flank. I have not timed it properly yet and it may be merely subjective on my part.

SD - Tested your ''little quirky'' and can confirm your findings.

BH:- Level in test at 400 ft appx. and forward motion regained before surface.

The Test excesses occured after a 180 deg turn had been completed - only with full rudder maintained
in a continued 180-360 turn. Then the rate of dive increased.

Another point although the indicator in Control showed an excessive initial tail-up on EB ( confirmed in 3D),
at about 400 ft, the indicator still showed the same but when the 3D was checked the sub (SW) had become level.
Cool eh ! :yep: Promotion earned to SAS, SCS :lol: ;)

A quote from Marconi, a 'serving officers' post at Battlefront :-
'' --at high speed (>20 kts) no sane Officer of the Deck would order a turn using full rudder, except to avoid an
imminent collision. The drag of the rudder at full throw is enough to slow the ship by 50-60% during the turn.
At >20 kts you can turn very quickly with 5~10 degrees rudder, while keeping most of your speed in the turn.''

Better learn the actions for "Jam Dive" :rock:

I was referring to the emergency surface order given when doing the death dive (a.k.a hard rudder at a flank bell) and recovering from a HUGE down angle to level when surfacing via EMBT blow.

Doing so from a level starting point you should end up more or less level or slightly bow up by the time you hit the surface.