Have a look here...

http://www.parismou.org/upload/rustb...20-%20CitN.pdf

Its not that is beat up it’s that it is such an old design. You expect that to look good in a Cold War era convoy to Europe? It might look good in the middle east but lets see some diffrent types of ships besides the normal "Cargo Ship".

Did I see a old rusty Italian cargo here. :)

I think the *point* is...what would an old WWII-era cargo ship be *doing* being escorted by an O.H. Perry? Or what cargo could it possibly be carrying that would be worth the expenditure of a Kilo's torpedo? Them things ain't cheap!

Ro-Ros or Container Ships at least carry a LOT more cargo, and can more easily carry more valuable things. Heck, even an oiler would possibly be worth the torpedo.

But a dry bulk cargo ship? Ummmm....???

Ever read "raise the titanic" ? :-j

You know.... back when I was a little squid...

There was Red Storm Rising by Microprose. It had a manual even thinner than the DW manual. The chapter on underwater sound was fairly short and VASTLY more simplified than what is in DW. It was okay, though, because it gave me a conceptual understanding from which I might delve deeper.

You have to be a pretty geeky kid to get into submarine simulations ANYHOW, so I'm not really worried about them not getting it. Compared to half-life, just the fact that you're fascinated by DW says a lot.

And besides, the way most people play DW has NOTHING to do with realism anyhow.

I loved Red Storm Rising. Ran like butter on my IBM AT.

Play the way you like...that's the fun of a simulation. On realism, I'm in more of the "realism, if it's fun" camp.

I don't know if I posted this elsewhere, but I'm not sure if DW (which I still don't own) is as good at generating further interest as RSR, 688, Seawolf, or even 688i H/K were. And of course the WWII games. I know a lot of people were introduced to the genre through some of these games (maybe not Seawolf, but I liked it so I'm mentioning it). but not many who "caught the bug" through Fast Attack (which I think emphasized a procedure/technical side over even 688i H/K) or SC.

It's probably just about sales, but I have always wondered if the genre (as represented by pretty much one line of excellent products) has created a very difficult to reconcile gap between newbies and, um, seabees :)

Happens in a lot of old genres. I tend to think about fighting games and modern jet combat sims, but I suppose everyone has some old favorite genre that's gone this way. Probably some FPS games are going that way, too, though those games tend to manage the learning curve better than other genres by being able to start with a very intuitive skill set and building up.

Not so sure it's learning curve, but looking good and playing fun for what you get.

Consider SHIII - a title selling like hotcakes by most accounts considering how it should have sold being a 'naval sim'. What's it do right? It's at least as complicated as DW when realism is cranked (indeed, perhaps moreso - at least in DW you have computers to do your trig for you! :rotfl: )

BUUUUT....it is also a blast to play - quick scenarios, and the realism can be set lower to make for a game just a step or two above shooters.

Honestly, I think DW does this pretty well. The auto crew work great - and it does prompt you during the install which option you want, so the n00bs should never really be hit with a wall of work at all. And, of course, DW's new auto-scenario-generator-thingy is a GREAT addition.

However, there is no arguing that SHIII doesn't look a LOT better....and that matters a lot in modern games.

Xander don't you mean SHIII LOOKS a lot better :)

Yea true, but hey I can fix the models :)

You got that right. I never cared about graphics on sub sims because, well, I always tried to stay in the cockpit, so to speak. But when I first got SH3, I spent 1/2 the time admiring the graphics. Really raised the bar.

Oh yes you can :yep: - and we are WAITING for those fixes! :rock:

Still, the water shader could use a little work. And, of course, being 16-bit color and FSAA not working are more than a touch annoying.

new scenario generator?
 

I've been away from DW for awhile, but have recently started back with it. So what is the new senario generator thingy you speak of? I haven't heard of this.

Re: new scenario generator?
 

Just the in-game 'quick mission' tool. You select the platform you want to command, the type of mission, and where you want it to be, and *poof*, the game comes up with a complete mission for you with an unknown type and number of opponents, conditions, etc.

Makes for a LOT of variety in the game when you get tired of the static missions.

For my part I use it all the time, the 'quick mission' option that is. I find it's very good for training. At the moment I'm getting to grips with the OHP. Only just got the TA station under my belt, but I'm very proud having done so. :lol: DW is rewarding in so many ways. I’m going to work on the FFG-7’s TMA station now. Urmm, if anyone is looking out for a qualified look out I’m your man. Very soon I'm going to venture on line. But before I do, I want to make sure I don't let anyone down who might be on a crew with me.