SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - SH4 before DC2?

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- - SH4 before DC2? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=87564)

Why are you trying to disagree with a perfectly legitimate poll? I have a feeling you will never like the results, unless they display what you want them to display...

In that case, it's not even worth it to start a discussion with you. I've already said too much...

Re: SH4 before DC2?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet

Well the subsim community has been begging for DC 2 to go with Sh3 for months

I for one, do NOT want a Destroyer Command 2; PERIOD. Requiring DC2 to come out and work with SHIV would cripple both games; like SH2 and DC were crippled together.

Quote:

Make an SHIII-engine based game where you could command small attack boat groups, convoy escorts, hunting/support groups, or even big battle groups. ...

I would luv to skipper say a Cruiser or BB with DD's an DE's in escort (All player controled) and take on other surface units whilst I have to worry about some nutter in a Sub out there somewhere determind to put a dent in my day. Or bring a Convoy in and try to sink my opponents sub, take a TF and do a shore bombardment and maintain a defencive perimeter to keep the subs away while they try to sink me.

Diversity is the spice of life.

I absolutely agree with those authors. Check out the old GNBNA fan website or the NWS forum for FS and TAS and you will find that there was and still is interest for naval surface unit sims that were introduced in the 90s of the last century! I personally don't see a reason why it shouldn't be extremly exciting and challenging to command e.g. the British Home Fleet or a lonesome German surface raider in a Dynamic campaign environment like it's offered by SH III, combined with good graphics. In good old GNBNA it was even possible to use BB float planes and carrier based planes. :up:

Im happy with either DC2 or SHIV, but I really just want SH3 finnished. If they wont do it then at least release the source code so we can! :damn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

I dunno...

I'm not sure if I believe that online multiplayer will enhance/save the sales numbers of SHIV. As someone posted earlier, only diehard-naval-sim-freaks will buy this type of game, and a true diehard-naval-sim-freak will buy SHIV regardless of online multiplayer or not.

You are mistaken, SH III was relative success mostly because of casual gamers buying the game.
Die hard fans are not enough to justify the total sales of SH III.
The sim as it came out wasn't a die hard naval simulation, of course the mods released afterwards increased the realism etc... but how many of the gaming populace actually used the mods ?
Only naval-die hard fans thats it.
In this day and age, if military simulations (of any kind) are to succeed in the marketplace then they have to cater to casual gamers, its like this and nothing you say is going to change the situation.
So some people are correct in assessing that multiplayer goes a long way to increase the visibility and long term success of a franchise.
You can rest assured that in 1 years time SH III will be forgotten within the casual gamers.
There just isn't enough to keep one interested so long, and dynamic campaign as good as it is can only take the confrontation so far.
For instance Falcon 4 success is not onyl due to its impressive dynamic campaign (much more impressive than SH III by the way) but because of its online capabilities.
Do you honestly think people would still be playing Falcon 4 after 7 years if there wasn't an online component ?

In essence you're asking how popular a Destroyer sim would be in a sub forumn. What kind of answer can you possibly expect?

As far as multiplayer, how can you look for multiplay fans in what has evolved into a single player game? The same problem. You're "marketing" to the small niche of players who hang around in these forums, who are only a fraction of the total folks out there.

If DC had been done well it would have been a winner. It wasn't, and very early it got a reputation as a "problem child". Plus it wasn't released simultaneously with SH2, which pretty well sank it.

That whole release was problematic. There are tons of ship fans out there, but no game has recently catered to what surface combatants like--much less a multiplayer campaign combining both...

Don't get into the attitude of thinking you sub folks are the whole world... It's simply not true. It is just that until Dangerous Waters, nobody has made a product including a worthy ASW effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseck

If DC had been done well it would have been a winner. It wasn't, and very early it got a reputation as a "problem child". Plus it wasn't released simultaneously with SH2, which pretty well sank it

No, to be exact, it sank both itself and SH2. Requiring both games to work with each other essentially crippled the games long before release.

Thats why I would prefer a true NAVAL SIM/GAME, where its all under 1 roof, no addon no patch, just all the fruit from day 1. You can take a sub to sea, skipper a DD/DE, Command a BB or carrier, launch planes, lay mines, do recon-intel/specop/resupply missions. Play as Allied or Axis with any country that was in the war. On the Multiplayer side ALL unit types would be PCO ( Player Controled Objects) enabled - think a Naval only version of BF BUT with the benfits of the SHIII/IV engine with the campain as is and the globe as your play pen, now you would have to admit, it be damn FUN !

You guys are thinking to small - Sub sim v's DC sim. I'm after the LOT - WWII at Sea, nothing less, with all that entales that I can play in single mode or multi mode (online or lan) with both decent AI and the advantage of PCO's to engage. This is nothing new that hasn't been done to other type's of games before so its not like its impossible. UBI wants a winner, well the above would be a bloody good start !!!

Well definitely this sim needs a humman manned DD or escort.
I do not think this is so difficult to implement since it was done before already and this will give the whole sim a total new scope of possibilities.
SHIII have been a really good and inmersive Sim but the lack of real Multiplayer possibilities makes it limp.

Of course a full Naval Sim with Carriers, Planes, Battlecruisers and so would be good although I am afraid we will need a new generation of computers to have this.
However at this stage a Sub vs Escort the way SHII was done but with the SHIII concepts would surely makr a milestone for thsi sim.
My two cents

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grom

There is almost 14 000 totally registered users at this forum. The group of 31 persons is not representative group to talk for all.

Otherwise

You have to accept that in such proportions as example:
if 200 thousands ppl preffer single player
then 110 thousands preffer multiplayer.

You can say only 110 thousands or this number of ppl is really impresive and might is worth give them for multi. Because they are still our customers.

I see that you have never done a population sample before. I can also see that you will argue regardless of the actual results and findings. This renders any further discussion fruitless and without merit. Accordingly, I bow out and leave you gentlemen to your bar fight. I suggest that chairs and bottles make sufficient instruments of mayhem.

I see that You have problems with understanding what is wish of users. You try to show that DC2 is not needed because few persons voted in Your poll. Somehow Your forgot that many people didnt know about egzisting of this poll. Now take a look at this:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums...wpollresults/Y

3 times more players wish to have DC2 than SH4. 77% out of more than 200 users. Is that clear enough ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grom

:lol:

I forgot about this poll. Look's like it's been eating at you, though. Hope you feel vindicated.

Whats so wrong with a DC/SH combo?

Pilot a DD on convoy duty from the states to England while fighting off the wolfpack sounds just as much fun as slipping a eel into a convoy.

Just my 2Â¢

While i am curious about SH4 (as opposed to Excited, I guess. I want to know how various things will be handled in it before i go to defcon 5,) a decent WW2 DD sim would have me ready to help play the development costs right now....

Quote:

Whats so wrong with a DC/SH combo?

Pilot a DD on convoy duty from the states to England while fighting off the wolfpack sounds just as much fun as slipping a eel into a convoy.

I did this on several occasions on DC with mission I cooked up using Floater's KD program. I loved it. There is something quite excellent about watching Depth Charges doing their thing when you're the one throwing them out there. i Loved commanding my little Escort group (especially with the modded and playable Black Swan as your ride!. You would be sailing along on dark nights only for one of the merchies to go up in a ball of flame bringing on a crazy hunt for the culprit. ...

Actually, if you will excuse me I'm going to go look for my DC disk....I might be a while. :)

Quote:

I forgot about this poll. Look's like it's been eating at you, though. Hope you feel vindicated.

Dont forget Your name it could eat at you. ;) mr. bla bla bla No hopes for ya this time ;)

Maybe it is not needed that they build DC2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris C

Hello,

Before ORP Orzel and ORP Grom projects I was doing project for SH3 called â€œSH3 Allies Conversionâ€ It was spouse to give you control of Ally submarines instead of the German subs. Since Iâ€™m pro Ally and in general anti Axis kind of a guy it was logical to me that I have to change or at least try changing SH3 to Allies point of view. Since my parentâ€™s heritage is Polish and I was born in USA and I never really done any mods for the Polish Community, I decided to do one for SH3 and for Poles in mind.

Of course Polish people are very meticulous and it wasnâ€™t easy to fit in at first as my Polish isnâ€™t that good but never the less I was accepted. Soon after when I was accepted I tried to gather some people with special skills to form the team and to complete this project â€œSH3 Allies Conversionâ€. However I couldnâ€™t find any skilled mod people, for months I've tried to find them but to no avail. I was really starting to feel the frustration but then I said to myself, no there is no way I can do that myself. I told the Polish Community that Iâ€™m closing the doors for project â€œSH3 Allies Conversionâ€. The thing was that I knew how to do all this but it was an overwhelming task for one person. It was more of a pain and frustration than pleasure and fun modding.

SH3 from the get go was not designed to be mod friendly in mind. A lot of the work has to be done at hacking or hex-editing level not the mention 3d model creation and implementation. Sure the SH3 mod community is great but many of the tools created donâ€™t do the work that I want or theyâ€™re not very precise at it.

Later I was contacted by Konrad a.k.a. Grom from Naval Base Polish Naval website. Konrad asked me to stay and told me there is one person who is doing ORP Orzel 3d model and could use my help I reluctantly agreed to come back, somewhat I was doubtful that there can be actually any help. Just as I was helping this person he had disappear and was never to be seen again just like ORP Orzel sub. However I decided to stay and try again pickup this heavy stone and see if I can get by implementation of a new 3d model into SH3. Again I was frustrated just of thinking how long it would take for me to create new 3d model and then add it etc. So I thought of it, I must cut the â€œred tapeâ€ and do it fast otherwise I may just as well quit altogether. Well, I figured since Iâ€™m one man team sort of like Rambo I decide to acquire existing 3d models freely available on the internet. I found ORP Jaskolka in virtual sailor and converted it from x. format to obj. format then started converting process back to SH3. Itâ€™s a lot faster than making new model myself and just as affective as I would have done it myself but with whole lot less time involved. However implementation is time consuming and can be very tedious work when doing it myself.

I donâ€™t know what sort of skillful mod people you guys have here but I can tell you that you need to be a pro at modding games and I mean it a pro. If you can help bring hex-editing team, 3d modeling team, and texturing team we can make DC2 based on SH3 in say about 6 to 8 months.

The easiest way is to use existing u-boatâ€™s 3d instruments and eventually later replace it with new DD views and instruments, DD watch tower etc. Also it is easier to convert sub sim model to DD sim model, because sub already has 2 physical sim models. One is surface sim model and second underwater sim model. So we just turn off underwater sim model leaving surface sim model. Iâ€™ve done it before with SH3 so it doesnâ€™t take long to do all that. The real problem is implementation of new 3d models. It is so time consuming that to say that â€œit is boringâ€ is an understatement. However we can use existing DDâ€™s from SH3 and make them human controlled units. Now, you may have a question with regard to: can we have sub vs. dd or vice versa? Donâ€™t know if it is possible technically two different sim models may work but havenâ€™t tested it so donâ€™t know. It may only be possible if one version of SH3 is original with sub sim model and the second with DD sim model. Technically it may work butâ€¦. Just canâ€™t say for sure. One version will work for sure but two in combination donâ€™t really know.

I have a forum dedicated to 2 projects: ORP Orzel & ORP Grom. You can write in English or Polish I understand both languages. As of now I have taken a break from modding SH3 and went to Star Wars Battlefront 2 and Star Wars Empire at War. At present time Iâ€™m testing mod official tools and servers for Pandemicâ€™s Star Wars Battlefront 2.

So there you go, Iâ€™ve tried to make a long story short or did I?

PS. I can only spend about 2 hours or less modding time a day soâ€¦. Itâ€™s not much but Iâ€™m skilful and it makes up for the few hours that I can spend modding games.

Chris C

If your interested have the time and the skills mail me

Beta preview http://www.subclub.info/phpBB_subclu...asc&highlight=

Thanks.