As I said this:
http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentar...ssia_want_7297
article may be of interest.

While it may be that "several" different takes on "meddling" with "the West" done by not one but several "organisations" are taking place simultaneously, one thing is sure: Nothing happens without Putin's knowledge and affirmation. Which is why this declaration is so funny, and obvious nonsense.
It is like those "talks" betwen Putin and Medjedjew back then in the TV: Everyone in the world instantly knew that this was staged and found this ridiculous, and i wonder if any russians really believed that show.
"Meddling" with the outcome of national elections of other nations.. Putin sure is not dumb but he should be careful.

This is a (convenient) myth.

And this is not only true regarding foreighn stuff, this is true regarding domestic stuff, for example Shaltai-Boltai group, which was affiliated with an FSB officer got closed not for their political actions (Medvedev was especially badly hit due to his exposure) but for going comercial.

p.s.
The other cause behind this myth (apart from how convenient it is politically) is projection. US has the most advanced cyberwarfare apparatus in the world at the moment, with the best organisation, most advanced institutions, etc. That vision is projected onto the very young Russian cyberwarfare efforts, which are currently based on semi independent personally (as in to a specific officer who provides legal cover for them) affiliated non interconnected hacker groups.
So not only Putin doesnt know what they do, but their own running officers may not know what they do.

So you say western fear of Russia is again exagerrated?

Military expenses could not keep up back then up to 1989, we read that the US-alleged russian military capabilities were exagerrated and (ab)used to get more money for their own military.
I guess this was true, however regarding hacking and cyber warfare we can expect all do it; when it comes to Russia i think you underestimate your people's capabilities :yep:

Yes, for the time being we do not have compatable capability and we are currently focusing on cyber security/hardenening and enablers.

We do cyber, the issue is that the nature of our cyber capability is not understood when people make statements like how Putin would be atleast aware of such operations, especially in how there is no chain of command, no enforced control, etc.

I can speculate regarding the reasons behind this and in addition to political convenience my guess is that US experts project their own approaches to cyber operations (for example where hard kill cyber requires direct authorisation by POTUS) to our operations (where officers primarily in law enforcement cover for hacker groups personally affiliated with them).

Not officially, no.

From CIA Fact book



Makes sense, governments which cannot monetarily support a military conflict against the US. Can at a fraction of the cost direct funds to develope cyber warfare systems and doctrine that can cripple us. Not only will our soldiers be fighting abroad some would have to remain behind to maintain order in our own country after infrastructures collapse.

Just look at the information being spread out there today it has us looking at each other as the enemy over the two most commonly talked about subjects known to mankind party politics and the weather. Someone said a nation divided will fall much easier. I suggest rather than shooting each other over stupid sheet like this just go fishing.

I took an oath too very similar to Comey's. Some people think that complaining and finger pointing day and night somehow makes them patriots. But I can tell you it takes a lot more than that to live by it. It takes hard physical labor, sacrifice, blood, sweat, tears, staying up til the wee hours, being away from home, getting the job done. And believe it or not it takes one heckuva amount of trust that those in authority will do the right thing and do what it takes to protect this country. Just as they trusted me to do the right thing. As Comey said there are people and organizations that want to tear us down lets not make it any easier for them.

Nor unofficially, as there is no chain of command or enforced control.

...and how many times have you ever heard a guilty criminal deny any implication by saying "that other guy did it"?...

...and do you really believe Putin is by any means a paragon of truthfulness?...

...or, perhaps, Putin is just quoting a famous US politician: "I am not a crook".




<O>

If this is true, and it has not been confirmed, this would move this issue toward actually interfering with the election instead of just influencing the election.

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. It shows that 4.1 percent of defendants who are sentenced to death in the United States are later shown to be innocent: 1 in 25.

Death sentences are uniquely well-documented. We don’t know nearly enough about other kinds of criminal cases to estimate the rate of wrongful convictions for those. The rate could be lower than for capital murders, or it could be higher. Of course, in a country with millions of criminal convictions a year and more than 2 million people behind bars, even 1 percent amounts to tens of thousands of tragic errors.

The actual NSA report can be found on this link:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...rphishing.html

Again, it is of note the NSA has and does not deny the authenticity of the document; in fact, the NSA's only official action in regard to the disclosure has been to ask for and receive the cooperation of The Intercept in making redactions of certain highly sensitive data. There has been no other denials of the authenticity from any other intelligence, investigative, or legislative entity involved with ongoing probes...

A couple of days ago, I heard some CA-GOP official make the claim the probes should be abandoned because no actual evidence of votes being changed has been found; when pressed about the evidence of actual breaches of parts of the electoral systems, he shrugged it off by saying something like 'well, no actual harm was done, so it doesn't really matter'. Let's look at an analogous situation: you come home from work one day and find you door lock has been tampered with, there is evidence person or persons have been in your home, but nothing was taken or damaged; you call the police, they arrive, listen to your story, look around and ask you "Did they take anything?" "No". "Well, then it doesn't really matter. Call us back if anything is taken". If some one breaks, enters and trespasses into your home that actually is a crime, regardless of whether anything was actually taken or harmed. Sensible people would want the authorities to investigate and try to apprehend the culprits; sensible people would use the experience as an incentive to fortify their homes to prevent a repeat occurrence; sensible people would probably invest in the acquisition of some sort of alarm system to deter a repeat occurrence; that's what sensible people would do...

Someone has trespassed into a very basic aspect of our US democracy. We need to find out who. how, and why, and we need to determine how to protect ourselves against future occurrences. Its what sensible people would do...

Only idiots would leave their home undefended...




<O>

Oh, Oh, he's turned on his deflector shields! Red alert!... :haha:

Don't really see what any of that has to do with the Russian hacking probes, unless you're trying to suggest or prove Putin has a 4.1% chance of being innocent... :haha:




<O>

What period does it cover? I'd think that with the advances in forensic science that the ratio is a lot better now.

Vienna, I really had no idea what your point was or who your remarks were directed too. I just tried to answer your question as to when the last time I heard a guilty person say it was the other guy. As you can see by the statistics it appears to happen more often than it should.

Anyone with half a brain should realize cyber warfare wether conducted by Russians, Chinese, Best Korea, or Santa Claus is something that should be expected in this day amd age. Just as they should expect it from us. Dont understand why everyone got thier panties in a bunch over it. Its been going on long before it made today's headlines. And as 'Solar Sunrise' proved and as Putin seems to suggest not all cyber attacks are sanctioned by governments.

NSA has my full support to do what it takes to crush attempts to harm my country. Whoever it may be.