The people that you so callously dismiss in 'Beirut, Afghanistan etc' are victims of terrorism plain and simple. Your prejudiced is so obvious. Why beat around the bush? Tell us exactly what you mean.

Radicals in the sense they openly speak their ideology and plan or have and will act on it.Far more are the types who danced in the streets after 9/11 etc While they are not terrorists themselves, many many more are complicit in their support of jihad.Really, if this was not true radical islam would not be so prevalent.Islam a religion of conquest among other things, that may not be "PC" but it is the truth, look at history.

Of course I am talking an all out war against radicals who actually murder etc and ZERO tolerance for those who support them by overt acts or by simply doing nothing.The non violent part of the war is to stop any and all immigration from muslim countries, no refugees etc.Those here who are not citizens must go back, period, no exceptions. Europe needs to do the same.Europe has a tougher problem because many countries like UK and France have screwed around allow these people to invade legally and gain toeholds there with significant percentage of population. Time to get tough and not play around anymore.

Not all 1.2 billion of them are radical, a large portion are good people, a small portion actually carries out overt acts of terror, while the majority in the middle between the two seem to support the jihad, hate of israel etc in spirit or things would change from within.

Nonsense. Killing 127 people in Paris is not going to make France or Europe convert. Last time I checked there were 742.5 million people in Europe. Not going to happen.

You are most likely correct this will not get Europe to convert. So they will continue to kill without remorse in the name of their god. To them you are an infidel, a non believer, you are lower than whale poop. They will if given the opportunity end your life too or die trying thinking they have done their god a service. Unless of course you convert.

Yeah. And make sure you convert to the "correct" flavor of Islam or you still have a target on your back. :doh:

You are most likely correct as well. Why do they hate us?

https://youtu.be/mL5XXcDN3n0

I find what Mr. Ratigan says quite interesting.

We reap what we sow.

First, let me tell you I'm sorry for all those people, killed by intentions "to defend high values" - no matter who tells to defend them.
We mourn for those French civilians, but I never see any misery for the Syrian, Pakistani, Somali, Iraqi, Afghani and and and civilians our uniformed terrorists sentence to death.

All this murder, all this terror, all this suffering and starving, all this war and pain around the globe is just a money game, some privileged clique is playing. Why do we let it happen?
We entitle them, justify their deeds and support their misanthropic, life destroying command. What's wrong with us? Are we some stupid morons?

We talk about religious extremists causing the global terror. True! But they are our terrorists, our breed.

Our capitalist economic system - nothing else but an other religion - is dependant on growth. Economic growth is what's most important, I heared my chancellor say. It's not peace or human rights or fairness - growth it is. We steadily need more ressources, more cheap labour, unsatisfied sales markets, lucrative investment opportunities and easily motivated soldiers.

Where will Western Europe find it? The North, West and South are taken. The south-eastern growing path has already been bloodily plastered in the 90's.
The East is on our wishlist - Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus. The Nazis were seeking new Lebensraum (living space) in the east - today we seek new growing space. History repeating.

The crux: we are dependent on Russian energy delivery. Russia covers ~ 30% of the West-European energy demand, with some countries like Poland, Latvia or Finland to 100% dependent on their gas and/or oil.
This situation may be peace saving, but it is also growth obstructive. What again was the most important?

We want to reduce our Russian dependence by installing a pipeline from Qatar and Saudi Arabia through Syria into Turkey - connected to Europe.
It would make an armed encounter with Russia possible and profitable, without a freezing caboose through the winter season.
Assad - as Putin's mate - doesn't want to permit the pipeline - so he changed into a bloody despot, a butcher, a new Hitler.
Our media is doing its job - to control our perception, to create our reality and subsequently our motivation to attack.

And that's why Qatar and Saudi Arabia are so willingly interested in democratic circumstances in Syria, supporting the opposition: they invest into new sales markets in Europe.
The low oil price is additionally a countermeasure to the US fracking, that is only profitable with high oil prices. One swatter - two flies.

The ruling class of the USA wants to keep its dominance over Europe and some rest of the world, to prolong the American Way of Life - the cheap way of living on the back of the others.
They promote a passage of arms between Western (NATO) Europe and Russia. Ukraine is accordingly the matching theatre of interest, with supported regime change and credits and weapons delivery.
Profitable weapons sales and credits for the partners, after the war a rebuildable Europe and a new Marshall-plan, anyone?
It was the base for the US dominance in the 20th century and why should it malfunction in the 21st century? Maybe they should engage in Syria too? Oh - wait - they do. This goes well with teasing Iran and Putin too.

The "Friends of Syria" impose sanctions on the country for years now, to demoralize the people and turn them against Assad. It worked only with ~ 10% of the folks there, while ~ 80% still support Assad.
Today a few millions have fled and the numbers may have adapted up to a certain degree.
As usual the western community of shared values invests into this opposing group, by arming and training them to cause chaos in Syria. Assad has to leave - no matter what blood toll it takes.
The situation went again out of control, with the uprise of ISIS, fed by our arrogant way of thinking, we could sort the groups and keep them working in our interest.

With the richest gas fields ever found by Italian experts north of Egypt, Putin was forced to engage in Syria. The Russian Air Force makes short process with any kind of armed opposition, especially with the ISIS, but also with our supported toy boys on the ground. While the USA was bombimng some sand dunes to officially fight the ISIS, the allied Qatari and Saudi support enabled some major territorial gain, to enable at least a two states solution, just for the case Assad would have been able to stand the storm. Putin changed the game. Now we have switched over to destroy all kind of installations, to leave scorched earth for Assad.

Putin's intentions are economic - true - as he doesn't want to lose the European money paid for his energy. But he also realizes our intentions to grow into his sphere of interest, directly in his front yard.
All modernisation of his weapons is owed to the fear, our troops delivering violently this "freedom and democracy", to gain the values needed for our growth. It would result in a consequent next step, you know.
We station our troops already along his borders - to defend his imperialistic behaviour - our media says. But of course, of course! He's the aggressor, we are the good ones.
Imagine a Chinese engagement in the Mexican turmoil - to bring stability and peace to the stricken people. Some naval base and a missile defence screen right at the US border.
Damn, the exceptional Cowboys - this new masterrace - would be really aggressive, I guess.

Assume some people down there in Syria understand what's going on and they decide to fight back the puppetplayers behind the curtain. Watch them demoralize our people, fight and kill our civilians, just as we organize the death of their civilians at home.

Our western community of shared values is the most dangerous, best eqipped, most deadly and a democratically organized and legitimized terrorist. He is the real reason for the terror we see in our cities.
It is the echo of our call - and it will persist as long as we terrorize their families. It's an asymetric and pretty helpless answer and I do wonder, why there is just so little of it.

Mr. Obama signs the burning of witches every morning - and the drones deliver hellfire to incinerate them, together with thousands of innocent in the last few years.
A witch is found - over there, see! You're sure it is a witch? Well, this should be his cellphone position, but who cares? Fire!

Yeah, we are the good ones! We destabilize societies, forment the people, support riots, arm minorities to cause chaos, impose sanctions on uncooperative, unwilling nations resisting our wishes and attack by choice regardless of international laws. This law of nations has binding nature for all - except the USA.

And a cohort Europe is going along. The shared values are countable values, in Euros and Dollars. We need more and more of them, so let's rumble.
We run a war on these people - and we expect no casualties? I say - don't dish it out, if you can't take it.
We deliver endless terror, so we shall receive it.

Sorry again for all the victims - on our side as on theirs. But our side definitly deserves them. They are just the wrong individuals.

How long will we keep watching this global bale?
We expect the muslims to seperate religion and state? What about our evil merger of economic religion and state power - commonly called fascism?
Shouldn't we clean our house first?


Just a few thoughts - i'm not into a debate. Enjoy your own convictions.
Over and out.

True, but they are small. Let's keep them that way and in doing so make ourselves grander. It's the only way to really win and doing otherwise just fuels their agenda. I'm not advocating being weak, just smarter. :yep:

EDIT: I just realized that that argument was one I used to explain why I believed going after Saddam was a bad idea. It does still take a ruthless leader and look at the one we've reaped for our blinded by blood eyesight after 911. Go ahead, look harder.....

Exactly, because to these terrorists, decent Muslims are not Muslims in their eyes, because they do not join in the jihad, because they are complicit with the West. To the terrorists, the Al Qaeda and ISIS fanatics, the moderate Muslims are excommunicated. Takfir. This concept was first published in 1961 in a manifesto by Sayid Qutb. It's why you cannot lump all Muslims together, that would be ignoring reality

Well written post, enjoyed it very much, with a grain of salt of course.

But they need to increase their convert rate if they hope to succeed against western firepower. What better way to do that than to make all Muslims in the west feel like the west has declared war on them? What better way to bring moderates to the cause than to make this a war on Islam rather than a war on radical Islam?
It's writing their propaganda for them. :nope:
There's 2 billion Muslims in the world, do we want to fight all of them?

Backtracking a smidge from:

So, are we fighting Muslims or not? :hmmm:

They dont have to fight western firepower. And if they do - western firepower is incapable of controling low tech society, because it is too precise and the society does not provide targeting data.

Police firefight (not graphic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwvBL2a3osU

I dont doubt western influence has to some small degree had an effect on the true believer. But lets not forget that entire region has, since the time of muhammed's death, been swimming in tribal anarchy. IMO if in the last several centuries they havent been able to live in peace with their own relatives, in their own countries because of sectarian violence over who is the rightful heir to the throne. What in blues blazes would make me think they're going to live peace in mine? They have just brought with them their centuries old history and culture of violence.

France, Germany and other European countries have extended themselves beyond measure to provide opportunity for a better way of life and what has it gotten them? Why DO they still hate them?