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-   -   The Confederate Flag Controversy (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=220901)

Armistead 07-01-15 09:41 PM
Yes, Gettysburg and other parks are starting to remove the flag even used in history. They're numerous reenacting events held in these towns, where we go relive history and let the Yanks whoop us. Some of events in Gettysburg that brings in big tourist dollars. Mass rising up of CS reenacting groups starting that will no longer partake of these events.

Onkel Neal 07-02-15 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vienna (Post 2325623)
:haha:

Sorry, Neal, I probably should have said the probable demographics: since Subsim does deal with military subject matter it would be logical to deduce a predominantly male population, pro-military, more conservative than liberal, and not a bunch of kale-munching, quinoa-quaffing, hippie-dippie, PRC flag-waving Far Lefties... :haha:

BTW, if I have offended any of the Far Lefties out there, I have done my good deed for the day...



<O>
No worries, thanks for the reply. I was curious about your perception of the makeup of the forum participants. I have not done a sampling in quite a while. I think you're right about the subject and nature. As for political leanings, I think we have a diverse group. If I remember, the last time the GT regulars did one of those "where do you fall on the political spectrum" 3rd party surveys, over 2/3 were left of center.

Aktungbby 07-02-15 12:53 AM
THIS JUST IN::haha: http://i0.wp.com/boingboing.net/wp-c...size=720%2C262

Oberon 07-02-15 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yubba (Post 2325644)
are you,, for or against the constitution and the founding of this great nation.???
"It is with absolute frankness that we speak of this struggle of the proletariat; each man must choose between joining our side or the other side. Any attempt to avoid taking sides in this issue must end in fiasco."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torplexed (Post 2325645)
One can only go by the example Lee set in his remaining time on earth until his death in 1870. He distanced himself from divisive symbols of a Civil War that his side lost.

"I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war," he wrote in a letter, declining an invitation by the Gettysburg Battlefield Memorial Association, and there were no flags flown at his funeral, Confederate or otherwise.

During the dark days of the Confederacy prior to Appomattox, Lee cut off all talk of guerrilla warfare. He was a professional soldier. He had seen more than enough of governors who would be commanders, and he had no respect for ragtag partisans. He told Col. Edward Porter Alexander, his artillery commander, . . . the men would become mere bands of marauders, and the enemy’s cavalry would pursue them and overrun many wide sections they may never have occasion to visit. We would bring on a state of affairs it would take the country years to recover from.”

“And, as for myself, you young fellows might go to bushwhacking, but the only dignified course for me would be, to go to Gen. Grant and surrender myself and take the consequences.” Which is what he did at a farmhouse in the village of Appomattox Court House, wearing a fulldress uniform and carrying a borrowed ceremonial sword which he did not surrender.

Even without the scourge of guerrilla warfare this country is still recovering to this day.
God, imagine how it would have been if they had carried on with guerrilla warfare, handing down the mission from father to son from generation to generation. The situation as it is is bad enough compared to some other civil wars which have long since past, but...wow. Thank God Lee threw his weight behind a proper organised surrender, and post war reconstruction.

Wolferz 07-02-15 06:13 AM
To date...
 
I haven't seen anyone burning a confederate flag.

The opposite flag is an entirely different matter.

The stars and bars are a form of free speech. So now we are going to allow the politically correct to dictate rights afforded by the constitution?

It might be time to secede again.:-?

Jimbuna 07-02-15 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yubba (Post 2325644)
I have probably done more good with one finger than you'll ever muster in a thousand life times.
Won't get involved for possible future moderation reasons but I am intrigued by the above statement.....care to elaborate?

razark 07-02-15 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolferz (Post 2325698)
The stars and bars are a form of free speech. So now we are going to allow the politically correct to dictate rights afforded by the constitution?
Can you show where the government has forced someone to not display a Confederate flag?

Schroeder 07-02-15 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2325699)
Won't get involved for possible future moderation reasons but I am intrigued by the above statement.....care to elaborate?
Obvious troll is obvious.:03:

Wolferz 07-02-15 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by razark (Post 2325710)
Can you show where the government has forced someone to not display a Confederate flag?
The government/s and their cronies seem to be mounting a PC campaign deriding the display of that flag. Just more misdirection from what is really going on.
All because some deranged little bigot decided to act on his hatred. Can the feds and the odd state governor say they haven't done the same thing on numerous occasions?

It's just more fear mongering plain and simple.

The Stars and Bars are merely a symbol of southern pride, not a penchant to promote slavery. I would say that that dark chapter in our history should be done but, every working adult is a slave to the IRS and the federal banking system.

There are still numerous examples of racism prevalent in our society on both sides of the issue but, free speech affords that right to all and it's one that I swore to defend at one point. I still do.

razark 07-02-15 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolferz (Post 2325720)
The government/s and their cronies seem to be mounting a PC campaign deriding the display of that flag. Just more misdirection from what is really going on.
The governments have only taken action regarding flags on government property. Some private businesses have stopped selling the flags, but those were on their own decision, not because some government declared they must.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolferz (Post 2325720)
All because some deranged little bigot decided to act on his hatred.
That may have triggered it, but it's a discussion that needed to happen at some point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolferz (Post 2325720)
The Stars and Bars are merely a symbol of southern pride, not a penchant to promote slavery.
A symbol can mean different things to different people. Aside from the racist connotations it has picked up, it's also the battle flag of an armed rebellion against the government. That's reason enough to remove it from government property. As for being a symbol of southern pride, I've never understood why the south is so damn proud of losing the war. Holding on to it for that long seems kind of silly to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolferz (Post 2325720)
...free speech affords that right to all and it's one that I swore to defend at one point. I still do.
If free speech were being violated, I'd agree. It's not.

Nippelspanner 07-02-15 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2325503)
I'm an outsider- My vote doesn't count and isn't it a domestic problem ?

Markus
No ones vote here "counts" since this is nothing official.
And your opinion sure counts, nationality doesn't matter here (at least to the admin of the page and most members).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 2325483)
That's why I didn't respond sooner. I wasn't sure if this meant removal from government buildings, which I support, or banning it altogether, which is definitely wrong.
What he said. :yep:

Wolferz 07-02-15 08:15 AM
Quote:
A symbol can mean different things to different people. Aside from the racist connotations it has picked up, it's also the battle flag of an armed rebellion against the government. That's reason enough to remove it from government property. As for being a symbol of southern pride, I've never understood why the south is so damn proud of losing the war. Holding on to it for that long seems kind of silly to me.
Rebellion?
I see it more as a defense against the first Republican dictator.

Lost the war? I offer clarification...
At first it was thought that the Yanks were coming for the whisky and the women.
When the real purpose of their visit was discovered, we just quit fightin and tried to go home.
Then, Sherman marched to the sea, burning everything in his path. Talk about holding a grudge!:down:

There are no victors in war. If it comes to blows, both sides lose.

Sailor Steve 07-02-15 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolferz (Post 2325728)
Rebellion?
I see it more as a defense against the first Republican dictator.
Since the secession came the instant he was elected, and the 'dictatorial' acts came long after the South firing the opening shots, that claim really doesn't wash.

Oberon 07-02-15 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolferz (Post 2325698)
It might be time to secede again.:-?
Because that fixed everything so successfully last time... :har:

Wolferz 07-02-15 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 2325729)
Since the secession came the instant he was elected, and the 'dictatorial' acts came long after the South firing the opening shots, that claim really doesn't wash.
They knew what was coming...


Ok, I'll concede that point but, let's take a brief look at the racist nature of Abraham Lincoln...
From Wikipedia...


The ACS(American Colonization Society), a private organization supported by prominent American politicians such as Abraham Lincoln, Henry Clay, and James Monroe, believed repatriation was preferable to emancipation of slaves.[14] Similar organizations established colonies in Mississippi-in-Africa and the Republic of Maryland, which were later annexed by Liberia. On July 26, 1847, the settlers issued a Declaration of Independence and promulgated a constitution, which, based on the political principles denoted in the United States Constitution, created the independent Republic of Liberia.

Let's not stray too far off topic.


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