is there a difference?

i understand that jerusalem fell to the romans because she had abandoned the law of moses

....and was regained by Jews due to embracing back law of moses?

No, due to the glorious crusaders (that the antichrist Obama recently dared to insult), and the Nazis who embraced Roman virtues so well that the Jews were

oh right:dead:

People forget the natives throughout history took and stole land from each other...

HUH!??

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ioux_Meet.jpeg

Doesn't matter. They were responsible for their actions, us American immigrants responsible for ours. Saying "but they were just as bad too" (and I'd make the case that 1. there were peaceful tribes and 2. at no point in their wars did one tribe completely wipe out another and destroy their culture entirely, like the white men did) has no bearing on the morality of our actions.

So I guess when Poland was dismembered by Prussia, Austria and Russia in the 18th century that was a moral judgment against the Poles?

Say Hitler never invaded the Soviet Union, and the Third Reich actually was on course to last 1000 years - does that mean the Nazis were morally superior to the Poles/French/Dutch/Luxembourgians/Norwegians/Danes/Belgians/Yugoslavs/Greeks?

When the Soviet Union dominated Eastern Europe after the war for generations, were they morally superior? When they crushed the Prague Spring, should the Czechoslovakians have just said "oh well, should have seen it coming, they're morally superior to us after all"?

Actually the colonies had a pretty good relationship with most tribes. That is until many of them (not all) joined forces with and worked for the Brits and French throughout the new nations many battles with them. The European enemies were defeated and stabbed their comrades in arms in the back, leaving them on the continent to fend for themselves. Those tribes were looked upon with distrust and retaliation ensued in other-words they choose the wrong side payed the price for it. Whats unfortunate all tribes became suspect, even the ones who fought on the side of the colonies. Its all a mess, thanks Obama.

i dont get why people have this romanticized notion about the american native at once acknowledging that they brutally massacred victims on alters in central america and on the other hand demonizing "the white man" (men in particular) as the scourge of the world even though the whole world has accepted european innovation and benefited from it. (sanitation, medicine, nutrition etc)

i guess it's the power of the media with movies like "Dances with Wolves" and "Django" etc etc etc ...


the american natives are not victims of "white encroachment". history unfolds and we as individuals are just small players on its stage. whatever events we find ourselves caught up in they are not of our choosing.

I'm fairly sure that Colombus chose to sail, I'm fairly sure the people who sailed on the Mayflower chose to sail, and the early Americans chose to expand.

There are choices.

The Europeans who came to the Americas had no problem in torturing heretics to get them to admit they were and then burning them at the stake for it. They had no qualms about owning other human beings and even thought it was God's will and plan. Religious groups were persecuted and exterminated by other religious groups. European countries and Kings waged war with each other on a regular basis and exported those wars around the world. I'm not the least bit surprised that the natives of the Americas were treated the way they were.

History books tell a different story as to the behavior of both the Natives and those who came to the Americas. Don't listen to Hollywood, try reading some.

That's a nice way of putting it. So what about the Mexicans who come into America? Just history unfolding?

why are they coming to america? to improve their standard of living but they will find it to be temporary.

yes it's the ebb and tide of history and there is a moral dimension to it.
america has fallen and is collapsing but civilization will rise again.

it isnt humanity that holds itself up.

It was once said of our former Dear Leader Bertie Ahern that his response to questions was like playing handball against a haystack - you hear a dull thud but the ball never quite comes back to you.

Many Europeans came to the Americas 'to improve their standard of living'. Or was there another reason?

I'm afraid to ask but...care to explain that.

I think in this case, the Irish have nailed it on the head again.

So, I shall just leave with this:

http://media.boreme.com/post_media/2...went-wrong.jpg