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In my opinion most important thing to learn is how to get target's course... so download/follow these tutorials http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RWDWd62q4w and these also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAt5cAfeL9c To measure speed: first make sure you are at dead stop, identify ship, get your stop watch and measure time needed for target to pass vertical line of your aiming cross from bow to stern, then multiply target's length with 1.943 and divide that number with number of seconds... for example: Ship length = 120 m Time = 25 seconds 120x1.943=233.16 233.16/25=9.3264 Target's speed is 9.3 knots. If measuring is distance based... i.e. based on the distance or "leg" the target makes between two bearings/ranges (i.e. marks on the map, given by WO, or radar, use protractor, circle and pen tool ) calculate like this: If time between measuring was, let's say 10 minutes, and the target in that time makes let's say 1450 m 1450/30.5=47.540984 47.540984/10=4.7540984 Round it up to 5, so target's speed is 5 knots... if you wonder what is 30.5 that is the distance (30.5 meters) an object/target makes in one minute at speed of 1 knot... Now practice... lot of practice... |
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WTF!! see.. What in the world is the point of using that tool that gives you angle info? I see a number of 45 or something.. from everything you just showed me, I wouldn't need to use that at all. |
That is the point you don't need to measure AoB with the protractor,
All you need to do is get a good target course and measure it's true heading(course line) with the compass rose and put that course into the TDC using the AoB input dial. It's really that simple. By using the three minute rule you get both speed and course, 2/3 for your firing solution and you may not have even seen the target yet. You don't even need to raise the periscope to do this, sonar or later radar is all you need to get to this point. All you need than is range/bearing, get this with the steadimeter once the target gets closer. When it's in a comfortable shooting range turn on the PK and start inputting your data. Speed, that shouldn't have changed Second use a AoB input dial to set in the course, that should not have changed either and last steadimeter range/bearing, check the firing solution on the attack map and adjust as necessary. Get to where you can hit with some consistency and than you can try more difficult shots later. There are other ways to do all this but this is the simplest, try it first. Good luck and good hunting.:salute::salute: Magic |
Thanks Magic!! you made it easier to understand.. I kept getting over my head with the protractor.. so really I just need to know the course the ship is on..
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Glad to help. There is a war going on here and we need all the good skippers we can get. :salute:
Once you get the hang of it you'll be sinking ships like crazy and the game will take on a new meaning. Magic |
Fastfed (and anyone else), since you're attempting to learn manual targeting and trying to map plot the target, I'd suggest you download and print out this reference "High Realism Tutorial". It's designed to have a new player become familiar with the Position Keeper, Attack Data Tool, the several tools used on the Navigation Map, and the process in getting Speed, Angle on Bow and Range/Target Relative Bearing to work for you in acquiring a firing solution.
At the above thread you'll find my AoB Calculator which is a handy handheld device to figure target AoB, or it's tract heading. The Position Keeper does the same duty, so you don't have to have it, but it is helpful when at the Nav Map. Also, there's a "High Realism Mission" which can be added to the game with JSGME so you can follow the same target that's described in the tutorial. If this single mission isn't enough, download this mission "AoB Test", it has several targets heading towards your submerged sub at different angles/speeds for practice too. I made it for practicing with OTC, but it'll work with just about any mod. Once the practice missions are activated through JSGME, you'll find them in the "Single Missions" menu at the "main" menu screen. One thing about your example images of the Nav Map......Why aren't you using the Nomograph? That's the three vertical lines thingy on the right side of the map! If you know the distance a target traveled, and the amount of time it took to travel that distance.......drawing a straight line connecting the two figures will point you to the speed the target is making. Simple as that. |
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Cause the 3min rule is easier, distance / 100 = speed |
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There are a number of different ways to do things, and each tool (3 minute rule, nomogram, calculations) each have their uses. My primary manual attack method is the zero gyro attack selecting the approach angle (e.g. 90, 45, or in between depending on the situation.) But when useful (or to keep in practice) I also use the TDC (bearing, range, AOB -with course verification), passive sonar only methods, and Kentucky Windage for snap shots. I find it useful to understand what is going on in each attack method and the inter-dependencies between parameters (like AOB and target course) to help me decide what type of attack to make, what neat thing to try (hits on 3 targets simultaneously), and how to proceed after my attack (snapshot ? as my periscope goes under at the tanker veering out of column and crossing my stern after the first targets were hit.) Tom |
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Very true :up: Wasn't meant in a disrespectful way at all but more like: When learning manual targeting this is by far the easiest way to get speed and true course. Once you get the hang of it you can start with other ways of get the same results without second guessing the input. |
There are a few things I'd like to add for fastfed, or anyone else who is learning, or brushing up on their manual targeting skills. |
wanted to thank EVERYONE so far.. this is great info.
I've been doing pretty well.. Started a new campaign in an S-18, finding lone merchants, diving to P depth.. Starting my 3 minute test and so far, 1 out of 3 are hitting.. So its a learning curve for sure. I'm getting the targets coarse down pretty well, speed is ok and range is ok. Sometimes I hit the first torp. or sometimes I miss the first and adjust the speed.. If the torp is a miss front, I adjust the speed and lower it depending on how much I miss. I just hit my first long range target by pure luck. Sometimes you have time to do the 3 minute mark, but for example this time I didn't I did for 1 merchant that was far away from a convoy behind me, 3 torps and 1 hit, he suck. I swung around and had to go full flank to catch up to the other 8 or so in a convoy, by the time I got there I has maybe 30 seconds to set up and take the shot, no way would I have 3 minutes. I had 1 torp left ready to shoot so I shot by the hip. Took a guess on every, speed.AOB.. Except range I asked my sonar guy to ping him, and send data to the TDC. sure enough 3k yards away, I fired.. Dove deep to avoid the incoming DD and turned.. some minute or so later.. "Torpedo impact!!!" :D That feeling right there beats anything else this game can offer.. I now know why manual targeting is awesome :) |
You just cannot say enough words to appreciate the feeling of getting things right!!
3 minute mark, had a speed of 12 knots, had the correct bearing, fired two torpedoes right when the target would of got to my 0,bow. http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps56859446.png First one would of hit fine, but it was a dude and blew up before it reached, the second one hit its mark perfectly! http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...psb5324c86.png I went to the attack nav just to check after the ship already got hit http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...psdc694e3a.png was still pretty good. don't hate me for keeping map contacts on, :) I wouldn't even know what to do without it :) when I do decide to turn them off, do you still see the line for what the sonar sees ?? |
also, maybe I'm doing it wrong, but the sonar guys range was way off.
He was about 1500 too much! |
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Once you get really good with the radar and plotting, you may want to try contacts off. |
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Knowing what the relative bearing of the target is, either mouse click the sonar bearing dial (on right side), or use the keyboard Home/End keys to mark the bearing. Mouse click the left most toggle switch to "Send" a ping. The sonar range dial will indicate the distance up to 4000+ yards, but listen for a "return ping" indicating a good hit. It could still come after the range dial has stopped revolving. If no return ping, adjust the bearing just a degree or two. Sometimes a minor bearing adjustment is all that's necessary. Once a return ping is made, click the right toggle switch to "Send" the range to the Position Keeper/TDC. Going to the periscope station or TBT, you'll find the accurate range shown on the Position Keeper. It's exactly nut's on. Just be aware that pinging a target when a warship is near is going to give away your position. That trot you find them in is intended to find you and beat the snott out of you! |
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