Yes, and most of us agree, or else this thread wouldn't be here. My only disagreement with you, and apparently Tak's, is in picking and choosing your faith and still calling yourself a Christian.

I don't know what you actually believe, because I don't know you, but it seems that what you are doing here is worshipping your concept of the God of the Bible, but only as far as you feel like. If you disagree with a text you reject it, which is fine, but at what point have you actually stopped believing in God as the texts teach and started believing in one of your own creation? Picking and choosing is a dangerous game, as Thomas Jefferson found out when he made his own New Testament.

Whatever 'talent' I have is based on a lifetime of being wrong. I've finally reached a point at which I don't trust anything that isn't fact. Fact is something that can actually be shown as being fact, something that can be proven. The truth is that I've been wrong (and apologized for it) so many times on these forums that I've long since lost count.

As for being a moderator, that was something different entirely. And I've been wrong there more than once as well.

You do realise that 70% of 'Christians' in my country actually reject those homophobic teachings as well, right? And I do have the right of self determination as well. How about I regard myself as Christian, but you regard me as Agnostic. That way we don't have to continue this back and forth argument that's eating up your time.

A few pages back you made a wholesale rejection of Christian scripture. That is fine, but you cannot reject scripture and call yourself an adherent to that scripture. That would be me claiming to be a Taoist while rejecting the Tao Te Ching. You tend to preface a lot of your arguments with the fact that you are a Christian, but this isn't necessarily so. As such, this distinction is very important for the purpose of having intellectually honest discussions.

Intellectual honesty is the central tenet of SubSim. :03:

And I suppose you realize that an untold number of people who would classify themselves as "Christian" don't follow any tenants of Christ's teachings. They may go to church, but many of them don't. They don't really follow Jesus at all, yet if you scratch them they'll get their backs up and actually become angry that anyone would question their "faith". This is not to point a finger at anyone here, or anywhere else; it's only to point out that large numbers of people who would call themselves "Christian" are nothing of the kind.

And how many people who consider themselves good Christians actually follow this commandment from Jesus himself: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal."

Or this one: "Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me"."

You see, you can regard yourself as anything you want. But if you truly want to be a follower, you have to ask yourself the question of how does God regard you?

OK, here the honest truth about my religion, so that this thread focuses once more on corruption in the Catholic church, and less about my religion (which has been very flattering)

I'm a person who regards myself as Christian, supports Gay rights, wants the church to hold less power in determining laws, and just wants everyone to get along*





*Yes, I have hope that everyone will get along. You can tell I have very little knowledge of the world.

You're missing the point. You use your version of spirituality in your aguments all the time. I am just telling you that if you are going to do that, you will be called out on it. You are young, and yes, you have very little knowedge of the world. That can be a very hard thing for someone your age, and you need to be prepared for when that happens on the boards; and it will. What is important is that you take something away from it, as I have not been arguing this point for my sake, but for your's.

:o

Umm... This is very, very awkward.

:har:

Thanks anyway! :D

Okay, you can laugh at me all you want, but you've set yourself up with a position so contradictory that it is indefensible. And you use that position as the leading edge in many of your arguments. A smart debater is going to see that hole in your defense and exploit it, but they probably won't be as nice and respectful as I was. And when that happens, you'll remember this conversation.

No, I wasn't laughing at you, I was laughing at my own stupidity.

these words reflect pretty much how i felt. commercial. propaganda.
all i wanted that moment to be, was not about Christian religion and catholic church, but about the person.

a lifetime of effort, five kids, 20 grandkids, and a lot more sat there, and whilst i *suspect* (HOPE) there is something bigger than human knowledge, i wanted it to be about the person we all lost. Say goodbye to her, in a respectable, humble way.

I felt like a Hijacking of that person's good qualities - abused to glorify the qualities of God and the catholic church.

(just like i am Hijacking this thread to lose my ramblings and frustration instead of stayng on topic of church abusing and laying smokescreens... :D )

Then not all is lost.

Takeda regularly plays the devil's advokate - not representing his personal opinion, but a different point of view than his interlocutor.
The result is that discussions become a kind of "thinking sport", turn into a duel of arguments - pretty much like chess.

I would never volunteer to play any kind of strategic and logic game against that man... because i can not do as you do : laugh about myself.
:D

are those words and comma... thse recommendations not the deed of humans? Is this not an old tale? just a story so old and so twisted and so translated that is has no accuracy any more?
Censored, hashed up by the Hierarchy, interpreted time and again?

and if yes, are these texts that make up the bible of any good use at all - should we care about how god sees us?

Should we forgive because it is told to us, or should forgiveness come from a spontaneous source of will?
Same with our image to god: if we have a habit of checking oour doings in relation to what we are instruc... animated to do, is that still the right path?

If God knows, as i suspect he does, he knows when i forgive because of my own motivation to do so, and when i forgive because the rules say so in the hope of stacking up riches in heaven.
because even stacking up riches in heaven is stacking up riches. faking forgiveness in order to recieve...?
HMMMM fishy to me!:hmm2::shifty:

:D

I admit that I do it, and rather often, although I am also known to argue my point of view. However, I try to do the latter less often, as I tend to get more emotionally involved in the argument, leading to heated exchanges. That being said, if I am doing it and it gets on anyone's nerves, or if you just are not in the mood for it that day, just say "hey Tak, not today, knock it off" and I will. I learn a lot about people and their views from the exercise, but I also know that it isn't something that everybody likes, or wants to do every day.

you have to sort of "play someone else", and thereby learn to imagine and appreciate other people's concerns , sort of "walk a mile in their shoes"
teaches you about life, priorities and is at the same time a good lesson in mental discipline , for all involved.
:up:

Not stupidity, but ignorance. Not ignorance in the modern sense of being rude, but in the classical sense of lack of knowledge in certain areas.

Calling yourself stupid is actually a good thing, as long as it's in context, and in your case it looks like it is. It takes an intelligent person to recognize his mistakes, and a good person to be willing to admit them in public. At least I hope so, since I do it myself so much.

An honest appraisal: You come across as young (which you say you are), sometimes annoyingly so. That said, maybe I get annoyed because I've gotten so old. I don't have an answer for that. You also come across as bright, perceptive and eager to learn, which are real assets in any day and age. It may or may not get worse before it gets better. One of the hallmarks of the late teens through college years is the sudden realization that you know everything. With luck you'll avoid that trap. You also come across as one of the good ones. Try not to lose that. :sunny: