SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Key '9/11 plotter' due in court

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Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo (Post 1881795)

They can consider themselves at war with us - but they don't fall under the geneva convention (they are not a recognized signatory and their own actions violated it) so we can treat them any way we as a nation at war choose. Using them to show the world and their islamic brothers the realities of trying to carry out a war against the US.

These would be the reasons that I am against a military tribunal. Using one moves toward labeling them as enemy combatants, giving legitimacy to their operation. Instead, we should have tried this in civilian court; treating them as nothing more than the common criminals they are.

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Exactly, every attempt a avoiding the laws or writing new laws just for these cases has dragged out the process delaying justice ....or backfired completely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo (Post 1881795)

200k dead or injured, or 750k dead or injured?

200k dead or injured Japanese civilians versus 750k dead or injured US soldiers ?

Such is the problem : war crime for some, a glorious action for others ...

Enola Gay's and Bockscar, which dropped for the first time "weapons of mass destruction", are still proudly presented in American museums.

I remember a Russian Museum, where was proudly exhibited (during many years) the gun which killed the Tsarevich Alexei (14 years old) in Yekaterinburg ...

dgn...

Quote:

"I asked General Marshall what it would cost in lives to land on the Tokio plain and other places in Japan," Truman said later. "It was his opinion that such an invasion would cost at minimum one quarter of a million casualties, and might cost as much as a million, on the American side alone, with an equal number of the enemy. The other military and naval men present agreed."

(20) Truman, letter to Cate, January 12, 1953, reproduced in Craven and Cate, Army Air Forces.

http://www.afa.org/media/enolagay/sson3.asp

So as much as 2 Million dead - a Million on each side....

Quote:

The JPS committee concluded:
"In our Saipan operation, it cost approximately one American killed and several wounded to exterminate seven Japanese soldiers. On this basis it might cost us half a million American lives and many times that number wounded . . . in the home islands."

*Sourced below

So if you have one dead and "several" wounded for every 7 dead Japanese - your looking at 500k dead Americans - thats 3.5 Million dead Japanese SOLDIERS. This does not even count civilian losses which were considered to be very high under the assumption that civilians would resist. So with that estimate you have well over 4 Million dead....

Quote:

"The implied top-end figure of approximately 1,700,000 to 2,000,000 battle casualties built on the basis of the Saipan ratio was slashed down to a best-case scenario figure that was not so huge as to make the task ahead appear insurmountable, and use of a 500,000 battle casualty figure was "the operative one at the working level"

http://home.roadrunner.com/~casualties/
A reprint of:
CASUALTY PROJECTIONS FOR THE U.S. INVASIONS OF JAPAN, 1945-1946: PLANNING AND POLICY IMPLICATIONS
by D. M. Giangreco in the Journal of Military History, 61 (July 1997)

And just so we are clear - the total attributed deaths from the 2 atomic bombs is 110k - you can add 2x that for fallout related deaths. Still well under anything like what an invasion would have caused.

And this still has nothing to do with the original topic......