You listed quite long list of inviduals. Could you expain that a little bit? That would help to understand your viewpoint. What comes to warmongering I can understand LBJ as but at my understanding FDR sent troops only against those nations who first declared war to United States. Could you explain what am I missing?

That post is unfortunately correct. My view about American society is based mostly on information obtained from such sources as BBC, New York Times, Washington Post, International Herald Tribune, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ABC and ofcourse local Finnish media like Yle, MTV3 and Helsingin Sanomat. I disagree with August in that our media is publishing "mostly partisan propaganda aimed at influencing the most gullible of our [U.S.] domestic audiences" but ofcourse I can't always verify how extensively every article's takes into account different viewpoints to issue.

Would I have financial resources I would gladly visit in your country and spend time in as many state as possible to get some more information. Currently one of the best ways to get look into issues on U.S. internal politics and your country's views in international politics is to visit in this forum. That's why I most appreciate those post who instead of just declaring persons own opinion also explain why they think so? That its why I often find understanding Anthony's (no you are not only one, just first name which comes to my mind) point of view very difficult. I also really appreciate if people provide links where there is more information on subject which we here happen to be discussing.

Thank you if you read this from beginning to the end! :)

Actually, if we're lucky, he'll become President, screw it up big time, and then the rest of the states will kick us out of the union. :up:

What the Heck? I didn't say this.

Oh, sorry Growler, that should be kraznyi_oktjabr

The perils of trying to make a post with multiple quotes :wah:

I was beginning to wonder about my work computer's security for a minute there.

And I agree - twas rude.:D

Well... if it was then, sorry. I don't see being an American as being dream come true right next after being in the Heaven.

I try to be less straightforward in presenting my opinions in future.

Or you could simply attempt to be civil. That's all we ask here; follow the golden rule.

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscart...s/jdin532l.jpg
This one?

Only thing I'm saying is, for many people - as lots of us here can tell you - America IS still their dream of paradise. Many risk death in very unpleasant ways to get here.

Does this grant us the right to act without restraint? Of course not. But don't discount the fact that America, even today in its difficulties, is still a lot of people's definition of hope for a better life.

Well, to begin with, my grandfather worked with The Kennedy's. He said that they were involved in a lot of backroom dealings (politically and financially), and actually tried to get him in on some of it. He overall said that they bought their political situations.

FDR wanted to go to war, but as part his election platform during the (at the time unpopular) European conflict, he vowed not to. The Lend Lease Act was actually a way to indirectly get into the war.

Some democrats have a habit of going beyond keeping religion out of politics, and as far as attacking people who do believe in God, and THAT is purely unacceptable.

John Edwards cheated on his wife that was (and now has died) dying of cancer during his presidential campaign, and used campaign funds to provide for and shut his mistress up. He even has a son with her.

Bill Clinton - lied under oath

During the 60's (and earlier), it was almost exclusively Democrats passing segregation laws, and stopping civil rights legislation. It was even (mainly) them that were against the Emancipation Proclamation.

Woodrow Wilson was attempting to pass communistic laws - he even (tho not very well known) had written a second constitution that handed over almost all freedoms to the Feds - I could be wrong - it may have been FDR, but it was one of them.

The EPA is filled with cover ups and are constantly restricting what we can and can't do with regards to "emissions" (quotations because I don't agree with it)

The ACLU actually sues people for following immigration laws (only in California and a few other states can they get away with it...) and raised controversy over a WWI veteran's memorial cross in the middle of the Arizona desert, which resulted in the vandalism and eventual theft of the cross.

The progressive Democrats have a habit of trying to regulate what is generally accepted as perfectly moral behavior, and deregulating behavior that is controversial.

It was a girl. :03:

What about when John Ensign did the same?

If you could be bothered to do a bit of your own research instead of swallowing whatever bullpucky Glenn Beck or whoever feeds you, you'd see that it was almost exclusively lawmakers in the South that were against those things. The percentage of Republicans in the South who opposed the Civil Rights Act was almost identical to the percentage of Democrats in the South who opposed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_R...rty_and_region

But why let facts get in the way?

No one is doing the right thing. dont put it all on democrats.whoever holds office seems to make the worst decisions.

its like their brain instantly degrades into a pile of crap and greed.

But it gets worse. The sheer amount of ignorant, unbelievably stupid, greedy, isolated, and selfish people living in this country makes the idea of allowing all the unwashed masses to vote on the biggest bills not an option.


These politicians, regardless of of their general and moral incompetence, have basically been educated in the art of manipulating the unwashed masses. Therefore, allowing people to vote on big bills wont matter anyway. Because the politicians will spew their bull**** and the unwashed masses will just soak it up like a sponge.


"A popular Government without popular information nor the means of aquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives"

- James Madison

Don't put him off his stride mookie, its fun to watch:03:

All politics degrade into crap at some point.

The Conservative viewpoint is what I have found to be logical in my case. I want the feds out of my damn business, my wallet, my life, my state, everything. It is their job to protect me from enemies foreign and domestic, and I don't want anything more than that. I don't want social security, I don't want medicare, I don't want any of that. I don't want to be FORCED to be charitable (welfare and numerous other things). I'm a good person. If I have the wiggle room to spare some for the poor, I'll put it in the collection basket at church. I also believe in the right to fail.

Also, I wasn't mentioning people from both sides of the aisle in my argument because my argument was never about both sides. It was about my views on ONE side.