I can not picture the UK without a decent navy. They have had one for hundreds of years

Not any longer....the simple fact is the current twunts in power are prepared to sacrifice whatever it takes to make the countries finances balance.

Camerons name will last long in the annals of infamy should we be weakened to such an extent that we aren't able to do anything other than protect our home island.

There is that...there is that... :hmmm:

If that ever became the case I should imagine Britain would make a reciprocal gesture in Europe or the Middle East should the opportunity ever present itself.

Personally though, I hope it never comes to that especially considering how steadfast our relationship has been with each other for so many years.

I think jim you are over reacting. The cuts are response to the current fiscal situation.

I actually think the navy hasn't come off too badly, though I disagree with with ditching the MR-4A.

We get the carriers, get the 7 Astutes, Still have the Type 45 and the Type 26 will come in to play too. There isn't anything to say that in 5 years time as funds increase things won't get expanded.

As for the Falklands, I can't see us giving them back and although we aren't an empire any more why should we? I think we should be giving Gibralter back, now that is a dafty.

Also there is too muc oil down by the falklands for us to give it back anytime soon.

and as for list of largest debtors, Britain according to the Sunday Times is has the 7th largest debt....after Germany actually which surprised me. France's is even bigger. Only thing is we don't make much so not sure how we are going to get out of this one. Only thing cameron could do was cut and the military got off lightly compared to other departments.

Maybe buy one or two of "these"....:ahoy::ahoy::p2:

We get told that often by politicians, right - that the future will be bright again, and things return to how they have been before crisis, and basically we will pick up again where we left things behind years ago.

I see zero reasons for assumiong this could ever become true. There is growing, not equal or even reducing, competition on the global markets. The race on ressources is on, with resources becoming rare. Costs for environmentally caused follow-up costs are rising. Globalised markets. Demographic shifts. Population growing planet-wide. China, India, Brasil becoming stronger, not weaker. US, EU becoming weaker, not stronger. Social gap between rich and poor widening throughout the West. Deconstruction of democracy and freedom. Mounting debts, and interests for serving them: resulting in not more but less potence of politics to act. Currency wars to get riud of debts by inflation, practical expropriation of private wealth caused by that.

We were not able to maintain balanced budgets even in times when the economies of ours were running smooth and well. How less can be expected that we will heal our life-threatening sick finances in times of weaker economic going in the future, and China and India and Brasil rising?

No way. Downwards, not upwards, our way goes. Aand we can see the signs throughout Europe, and the US.

We will not recover to former levels again. Not now and not in 10 or 20 years. If we can slow down our decline a vbit, we already should consider that to be lucky. But I personally already thoight thjat even during the bubble bursting from late 2008 on, the next one already was in the making. I correct that assessement now: and turn it from singular to plural.

Wir kriegten und kriegen den Hals nie voll genug - und daran werden wir ersticken.

Keep public and external debts separate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._external_debt

And interprete any scores against a coutry's economic power GDP and population size.

Not to mention plenty of Lima Sidewinders and Stingers. ;)


Unless the other side is attacking with submarines. Can't see a funky hat on a sonar screen... :03:

I disagree, RN subs are far more capable today. Back then they just had MK8 and tigerfish torpedoes. Today they have Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles and Spearfish torpedoes. The Royal Navy's subs could easily strike targets inside Argentina in retaliation and engage enemy ships beyond their horizon, something they could not do in 1982.

External debt maybe high, but I am talking what the UK government owns.

shame the times is a pay site now, though I might be able to find it.

National debt as a percentage of GDP the UK is 7th of the G20 countries and that is the one that counts as far as government is concerned and my taxes.

This shows quite a good illustration.
http://www.visualeconomics.com/gdp-v...bt-by-country/

However back to the defence cuts.

UK MoD got of lightly....the problem is the F-35C is going to take too long to come in to service.

I'm not as pessimistic as you Skybird.

Personally I think it is time for a good ol' big war.

Oh as for the Falklands, the US military and intel services were a great help, your politicians less so.

There was a lot of back channel stuff going on behind the politico's backs so we could get the kit we needed.

Also the French were good allies, they didn't provide any more exocet, they let us know how they worked and did DACT combat against their airforce.

MI5 bought every spare Exocet on the market as well as the French cancelling the Argentine orders. It cost a bit but was worth it.

You may be right...only time will tell.

I do agree with your points regarding the navy not having come off 'too badly' but my overriding concern is the fact that the precedent has now been set and my living memory tells me that once Government sells the silverware it never buys it back.

Yes, good financial times may well return in the future but there are always new or fresh demands on the pot of money available that outweigh the need to renew something it would be argued we had managed to do without.

Don't vote....it only encourages the buggas :DL:03:

How do you see the reaction over there to the cuts to other services like police and other public services?

TBH I'm simply grateful I'm out of the rat race now.

This government is prepared to put over half a million out of work through one means or another whilst slashing 7 billion off the welfare state/benefits.

Not all of those half million will be entitled to a pension, so where is the safety net?

I'm all for tightening up the welfare state and make it more stringent for claimants to succeed in receiving their entitlements but until a cap is put on immigration and those dependants who soon follow and other anomalies such as paying and sending child benefit (to their original countries) to those who come here from the EU to name just two examples, I can't see the people of Britain putting up with this for too long.

I'd rather see a means tested system where your welcome to enter if you have a skill that is in demand and/or a means of providing for yourself.

Britain is broke, enough is enough and charity should begin at home.

How quaint the only large rise in budget is going to be overseas aid (32 billion).

As for the Police and other Public Services....they have been given fair warning that budgets are to be downsized each year (27% in the next four years for local government) so will have to come up with innovative ideas to provide the same services with less money....if that is possible.

If the same question was asked of a hundred people you'd no doubt get a hundred different views/opinions.

What really annoys me is the fact that no party got a majority at the last election and the most insignificant of the big three (Lib Dems) sacrificed huge parts of their parties pre-election manifesto so Clegg could reside in Downing Street and a half-hearted/lukewarm promise of talks on proportional representation some time in the future.

The day of reckoning for the Lib Dems before the British electorate will be a day worth savouring.

With regards to the police, it's not. The only way they'll make the needed savings is to cut their spending on staffing and science.

Therefore that'll mean less specialised units, and much less scientific work done on cases.

I just pity the copper who has to tell a 13 year old rape victim "Unfortunately there is no longer the budget for the forensic work that would have meant your attacker will be put behind bars."