Have a nice New Year's Eve !!!

now it positively looks excellent !!!! love the darker dial !

regards

keltos

E-X-C-E-L-L-E-N-T :yeah:

So it will work both ny using the stadimeter as per normal and also by dragging the wheel? It will need a scale for the TBT marks & Mast heigth in the inner wheel, right?

[QUOTE=Hitman;1564146]E-X-C-E-L-L-E-N-T :yeah:

So it will work both ny using the stadimeter as per normal
can you explain a bit more please hitman ?

and also by dragging the wheel?
the wheel allows to choose the range right ?

It will need a scale for the TBT marks & Mast heigth in the inner wheel, right?
you've lost me... then again today my brain functions on a slow mode if at all :woot:

but I feel this is a superb addition to SH4 :salute:

I see that you have added tickmarks to the scope view , right ? so I guess I'll have to edit my japanese, french and british scopes to use it with them right ?



keltos

@ Hitman and Keltos01 and anyone else who's tuning in.

The range wheel I have on display with the images works with or without the use of the Stadimeter. They are independent of each other. Both will send their independantly found range data to the TDC.

The Stadimeter through its usual appearence by clicking on the specific button on the Attack Data Tool for the Americans, or the image of a....I don't know what you'd call it.... on the lower left of the Greman Notepad. Then sending the data after lining up the waterline second image on the height reference point.

The Range Dial will capture the mouse in the center of the dial and by dragging the wheel to the red Range line and clicking the send button (either American on the Attack Data Tool, or German on the Solution Notepad) the TDC will be updated to the Range Dials displayed range.

Nothing else needs to be done for the TBT or UZO. Both of these stations have the American Attack Data Tool or the German Solution Notepad available to them. The Range Dial is linked to the "Range" button found on them, having it appear when clicked, having it disappear when the Speed or AoB button is clicked. There is no need to have the height on the wheel since the Range Dial only inputs range to the TDC (and Position Keeper).

Keltos01, I don't think you need to do anything to your scope images if they are corrected to a 32 degree Field of View. The Telemeter divisions need to be spaced at 32 degrees horizontally and vertically. If they are, your set. The scope images I made are larger than stock (I just don't like the idea you seem to look through a port hole with the stock overlay) making it appear you have the eyepiece close to the eye. The fractional Telemeter divisions were put on to allow for a more precise measurement but they are not authentic. I will have an optional set of periscope and TBT/UZO overlays that will appear as authentic as possible (without the fractional marks or the light green color for the Periscope's).


BUT!!!

I'm needing some help!

With all this said, I can tell you if it sounds too good to be true it probably is!!

I finished the documentation and was going through the files, preparing to compress the download together, when I decided to run the various optional mods with the OTC to check one last time everything was in order. I changed my game resolution to 1600x1200 to see how things looked. To my surprise the Range Dial does not work!!!! Least wise not as it did when I had the game running at the base 1024x768 resolution!! The Range Dial would not respond when moused over. It will not capture the mouse and move the dial independently as it did at the 1024x768 resolution. I checked the German side of play, at the same resolution, same result. Tried the 1280x1024 resolution, same unresponsive result. Went back to the 1024x768 resolution and the Range Dial works beautifully!!!

I don't understand. In desperation, I've fiddled with the Dial.cfg entries. I've changed some of the parameters in the Menu_1024_768.ini file and nothing is making a difference (except for losing the dial functionality at the 1024x768 resolution). I would be happy to release the Range Dial as is, if we all used the 1024x768 game resolution, but that just isn't reality. Soooooo, I'm trying to think of an alternative process. I could try to rework the American Attack Data Tool directly and see if a better more readable dial would work. But, what about the German side? There's no dial set up there to rework, and if the Range Dial I made won't work at another resolution besides 1024x768 I'm dumb founded on what to do. This finding is like the Camera.dat file for the specific 1280x1024 resolution, where this one resolution requires a different AngularAngle figure than all others in order to have the Field of View in the periscopes set at 32 degrees!! I'm afraid the dev's may have us backed into a corner with the hard coded mess they left us.

[QUOTE=CapnScurvy;1565688


Keltos01, I don't think you need to do anything to your scope images if they are corrected to a 32 degree Field of View.

[COLOR=Lime]sh... there we go again ! can you elaborate on that ?

f.i. : the surcouf :

attack scope :

camera parameter set at 62,4814 degrees (stock)

magnification : 1.1 and 6.0

obs scope

camera parameter set at 40.00 degrees (stock)

magnification : 1.1 and 2.0

I just remade the divisions etc.. from the original dds as a layout, adding my own then deleting stocks'
[/COLOR]
The Telemeter divisions need to be spaced at 32 degrees horizontally and vertically. If they are, your set.

The scope images I made are larger than stock (I just don't like the idea you seem to look through a port hole with the stock overlay) making it appear you have the eyepiece close to the eye.

I liked it, but on my screen I find the slide rule too big...

keltos

Before I try to answer Keltos questions, I've got good news.

I was able to get the Optical Targeting Correction "Range Dial" working for all resolutions!!! Making a new image, and having the "parent" of the Range Dial the "Attack Data Tool" instead of the "Range button" made the dial preform as intended. I'll need to do the same for the German Solution Notepad and link the Range Dial to it, then I'll see if this does not fix the problem on the German side of play as well. I'm thinking it should, but I'll not bet the farm on it just yet. If all goes as planned (and when in the world does THAT happen?!) I'll be releasing OTC soon.

===============

@ Keltos, those figures of the Attack Periscope "stock" AngularAngle of 62.4814 are wrong (I mean, they are incorrect if you expect to have a 32 degree Field of View). It's that parameter, and the stock magnification of 1.0 at low power/4.0 at high power, that gives the stock attack periscope the incorrect 36 degree wide Field of View (38 degree FoV for the 1280x1024 game resolution). It needs to have a FoV of 32 degrees. Look at the stock Telemeter divisions on the attack periscope lens. There are 32 division marks on the lens (top to bottom or left to right). The devs knew what to do; have the scopes FoV at the proper 32 degrees wide dimension. That's why there's 32 telemeter division marks on the scope. They just didn't do it when they made the "world view", which is made through the camera.dat file!!! Particularly the AngularAngle figure which decides the size of the world view for every "camera" screen the game uses.

That obs scope parameter of "40.00 degrees stock, magnification 1.1 and 2.0". Where did you get that? The "stock" observation periscope AngularAngle and magnification is the same as the attack periscope I listed above.

As far as the Omnimeter being too big, I found the "larger the better" to read the correct scale. Some time ago I had asked folks "What game resolution do you use"? Most were larger than 1280x1024. At those resolutions an Omnimeter better be large enough to read the fine print. That's why it takes up a lot of room at a 1024x768 resolution.

Thanks for your suggestion! :yeah:

[QUOTE=CapnScurvy;1567477]Before I try to answer Keltos questions, I've got good news.
:D:D:D:yeah::woot:

@ Keltos, those figures of the Attack Periscope "stock" AngularAngle of 62.4814 are wrong (I mean, they are incorrect if you expect to have a 32 degree Field of View).
so should i set 32° instead ?

also, and i don't remember the exact figure, when at high power (6x for the IJN) the field of view should be in the magnitude of ? 10° only shouldn't it ? how do I get that, or is the FOV divided by the magnification at that level ?

stock obs periscope :
angular angle=62,4814


It's that parameter, and the stock magnification of 1.0 at low power/4.0 at high power, that gives the stock attack periscope the incorrect 36 degree wide Field of View (38 degree FoV for the 1280x1024 game resolution).



It needs to have a FoV of 32 degrees. Look at the stock Telemeter divisions on the attack periscope lens. There are 32 division marks on the lens (top to bottom or left to right). The devs knew what to do; have the scopes FoV at the proper 32 degrees wide dimension. That's why there's 32 telemeter division marks on the scope. They just didn't do it when they made the "world view",
:o

which is made through the camera.dat file!!! Particularly the AngularAngle figure which decides the size of the world view for every "camera" screen the game uses.
ok
That obs scope parameter of "40.00 degrees stock, magnification 1.1 and 2.0". Where did you get that? The "stock" observation periscope AngularAngle and magnification is the same as the attack periscope I listed above.
oops that must be my french one... I read someplace that the obs scope had a wide field and fixed magnification of 1.0
As far as the Omnimeter being too big, I found the "larger the better" to read the correct scale. Some time ago I had asked folks "What game resolution do you use"? Most were larger than 1280x1024. At those resolutions an Omnimeter better be large enough to read the fine print. That's why it takes up a lot of room at a 1024x768 resolution.
keltos


ps So as not to clog your optimeter thread with my ramblings I have decided to start a periscope FOV thread.

It's been a while since I've done anything with this thread, that doesn't mean I've been sitting on my hands though. I started to look at something innocently enough and let it take "a life all its own" before I finished.

A pet peeve of mine has been along the "Orders Bar" to rename the A-Scope.....A-Scope, and to correct the PPI name as well (the've always been backwards). Simple enough, just make a switch of the two names so they match correctly. When I hopped over to the German side, I discovered the names had switched and "they" now read incorrectly. Humpf!? What gives here? As I looked through the files I found the Radar portion was really a mess with incorrect naming, backward parameters (left means right, up takes you down), incorrect node parameters. I just had to take stock of what was wrong and take it a step at a time.

My first thing to do was to make an American and German mission, placing friendly ships and planes around a stationary sub, and let the stock game tell me what it sees. Below is an image of the American mission with several ships positioned around a sub. This image has a range ring drawn around the sub showing the 8000 yard distance the PPI radar is set to scan. Thirteen targets; no small profile ships, all CL or larger.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w.../USNavMap1.jpg


I noticed right away 13 targets did not show on the radar screen. Only a couple at a time on each sweep, different targets found on every sweep (sometimes a repeat, but it was just hit and miss). The sub is a Baleo class. The seas are calm, I always set the wind to zero when doing a test mission unless there's a reason to check during rough weather. The following images show successive sweeps within a couple of minutes of each other.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w.../ReallyNo1.jpg


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...No1USRadar.jpg


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...1stUSRadar.jpg


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...2ndUSRadar.jpg


So, from a visual point of view, the area around the sub looks like a parking lot, yet the radar picks up very little.


Lets look at the German radar and see what the stock game reveals with it. Here's the target ship setup found on the Navigation Map. 4 ships, with an additional Type IX German sub positioned to the rear Starboard of the Walther XXII.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...rmanNavMap.jpg


This is the PPI radar image. I didn't need to make successive pictures of the sweeps, they were all the same. The targets were picked up on each scan. No misses. The sub sitting off at about 500 yards was not picked up put I figured it was due to the close proximity and low profile of the sub.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...ermanRadar.jpg


What's this tell you?

The German side works as it should, the American side (which had better equipment), not so much.

Great, not only can't we get the game to name the radar scopes correctly we don't have them functioning as they should.

Below is just one file that specifies what the radar does. This image (actually I have both the American and German counterpart files in the image) has several highlighted differences.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...ifferences.jpg


The opened node 39 of the "Sensors_Sub_US.sim" file (on the left side) is of the "Early SJ_Baleo_head" which is the type of antenna used on this particular sub. There are 5 specific types of antenna used on the various American subs with the "early war" heading (5 more that are called "late war"). The point is, all 5 of the "early" type have the same parameters as what is shown above.

Compare these parameter figures to the right side (Senzori_Uboat.sim file) with the node 61 open. This node represents the German "FuMO_64 antenna" (the very type that is installed on the Walther XXII used in the test mission). Notice the highlighted areas, and the differences found here. I'm not comparing which radar set has a maximum range parameter, I'm comparing generic parameters that allow the radar to work as it should.

The "Surface" parameter is a setting for how much of an area does it take to have an object be seen by the radar at the maximum distance. The smaller the parameter the better the pick-up. The German radar is set to 20 the Americans set to 100. That's a big difference considering the Allied radar was considered better than the Germans.

The "SkipSweep" parameter is supposed to allow or not allow a sweep of "invalid" sectors. Well, I don't know what an "invalid" sector is, but if the German side has it set to False, I believe so should the American.

The troubling area is in the circled "Elevation" parameter. Why is the American radar backwards to the German side? I don't know, but I can tell you this. When you place the American "Elevation" parameters for Max and Min something close to the German side, the Radar lights up like a Christmas tree with found targets!!

I'm not going to claim I'm the only guy to find why the American radar is messed up. For all I know there are dozens of reports to this topic and answers already made. I really don't know. BUT, I will tell you I've worked on the Radar to make it work as I think it should and made radar screen overlays to help a player figure range at the American A-Scope and PPI stations. I do know Hitman made an overlay some time ago and mine are somewhat like his. His work on this end was done first, I take no credit of what he solved as a means of reading radar blips and turning them into usable range estimates. I'm simply tying up some loose ends to enable a Range Dial that inputs distance to the TDC to work with a radar set that will provide another means of finding a targets distance.

Invalid sectors are the places that the sensor in question cannot see if they sweep with an arc. For example, the sonar can't see (well OK, hear) between 170 and 190 and with SkipSweep, it will jump from 170 straight to 190 without having to traverse at the normal sweep speed through 170 - 190 degrees. If you watch the sonar station, you'll see the pointer skips faster over the propellers. For the US radar it doesn't matter if it's enabled or not, as the radar covers the whole range of 0 - 360 degrees (yes, that's right all 361 degrees :hmmm:).

Nisgeis, thanks for the description of the SkipSweep parameter.

You mentioned the 361 degree circle. I thought I'd try changing that considering the "jump" in the sweep hand near the 360 degree position. I suppose you tried it too, and found it didn't help. If I remember right, the radar "balked" at the change I made, and didn't even turn on.

I'm wondering if you ever noticed a "dead spot" with the radar (and sonar for that matter)? I'd have to look up notes I made years ago regarding a specific area that I remember was dead to sonar readings although a ship was sitting there. The area was to the port side of the sub, not quite at the 270 degree position. When I was making test missions for ship height adjustments I found a spot where a sonar reading wasn't able to find a target sitting just 1000 yards away. I learned to place targets more directly in front of the sub to avoid this behavior (least wise keep them ahead of the 270 port, 90 starboard bearing).

I've encountered this again with the radar. The previous American navigation map screen showing the various targets had a ship (a CV) positioned at the 263 degree relative bearing, at 3000 yard distance. The target never showed on the radar screens (PPI or A-Scope). I moved it to a different bearing, same distance and no problem finding it. The CV was moved to about the 300 degree bearing. :o

The PPI scope object is too large for the shroud, so at a range of 8,000 yards, the objects at the extreme of that range are obscured by the 'hood' of the radar. Also in stock, it's 8,000 metres, which doesn't help.

What I do know is that the radar set you interface with and the radar sensor are not set up the same, but are based on the same sensor. It's been a while since I had the displeasure of testing the radar, but from what I remember the radar screen can be set up to not display things that the radar 'sensor' can see. The 'surface' attirube comes into play when it reaches about a million or so, any small value seem to have no effect at all. It also works the other way round, sometimes you can see things on the radar that your operator cannot - this is the same with the sonar, sometimes you can hear things that the sonar 'operator' cannot.

I've not had a problem with finding targets on a sweep at any bearings, but then I do use my own mod. During testing of the 3d TDC and radar mod, Hitman said that finding a target range with TMO was very frustrating as the pip would keep disappearing for long periods of time. More so than in stock. Weather affects the radar (waves obscue the target), so does aspect ratio, so does 'ProbInsideArc' percentage (which is the probability that if the target is within the detection arc that it will actually be detected), so do a number of other things that can all combine to cause you pain. Depending on your setup you may have more trouble than others.

Update on progress.

This [WIP] post seems to have a life all its own as I look at things I have always wanted to fix and wish to correct before I'm ready to release. I left off with looking at the Radar and wanting to put my 2 cents worth on the subject. Not only have I made a couple of radar screen "overlays" for the American PPI and A-Scope but made metric versions as well. The German side really doesn't need an overlay to read the blips since it has a handy digital readout, so I've left them alone (the German digital readout only reads in meters though, no imperial conversion, unless you do it yourself).

Below is the American A-Scope station, showing the "target bearing" dial and the scope screen. I've added the ability to "zoom" into the screen for a closer view.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...opeStation.jpg


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w.../USA-Scope.jpg

This is an in-game screen shot of the maximum zoom feature at this station. You will be able to "move up" to the bearing dial to easily read the target bearing in question.

The A-scope has three range selections from the smallest of 4000 yards, next 32,000 yards, and the maximum of 60,000 yards distance. These three ranges are displayed on the "overlay" with the 4,000 along the bottom, the 60,000 yard range scale read at the top. I can't remove the games scale which is at the very bottom of the screen, so just ignore it. It's not a perfect world, but with the overlay you will get an accurate reading of what the radar picks up. If you were to read the games range scale (which does correctly state the selector is at the 4,000 yard range), the target ship spike would be somewhere around the 2800 yard distance. Not at all accurate.

I have the radar set to the 4000 yard range with the radar return spiking at the 3000 yard distance. The target is indeed sitting at about the 11 degree bearing at 3000 yards distance.

The following image has my PPI screen overlay added and zoomed in with the same target (this is an untouched screen shot, before snapping the picture I used the "delete" key to remove the orders bar from the bottom of the screen). The PPI station has three range scales to choose from. Starting at 8,000 yards, then 32,000 yards, and 80,000 yards range at maximum distance. The scale along the top left uses both the 8,000 and 80,000 distance, The right hand scale is used for the 32,000 yard setting. For this image, the range scale is set to the lowest 8,000 yard distance. The same target ship that I used for the A-scope is on the 3,000 yard line. If the radar sweep indicator were sitting on top of the blip, the relative bearing would be at the 11 degree mark. Correct for the actual target in question.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...wlee/USPPI.jpg


As I pointed out I have a metric version for both radar screens.

With the Range Dial (I've made earlier) that's over at the Attack Data tool, you will be able to input a radar found range to the TDC (up to a maximum range of 6,200 yards) for a manual firing solution input. With some of the changes I've made the PPI screen will now pick up aircraft. As in real life, telling the difference between an aircraft or surface craft return will be the speed in which the blip traverses the screen.

I know Hitman had a similar PPI radar screen mod; and Nisgeis had something similar for the A-Scope. In order to have the overlays visible I've had to ask for the permission of Nisgeis and Anvart to use their radar shader files. So, by no means have I developed something new. I have made it "workable" though. With the other changes I'm looking at, I hope to have the radar not only give accurate readings of bearing and range, but have the radar available to the player when it should within the time line of the game. I also expect the games upgrade to the newer units when the appropriate time arrives will be corrected too.

Looks excellent :up:

The more, the merrier, and yours is much better than the one I did :yep:

Wow, I had no idea the game optics were so screwed up. I'm glad someone's fixing them!

Likewise for the radar. I had a feeling it was occasionally failing to pick up stuff that should be there, but didn't know it was that bad. I haven't played any German missions yet, so have no experience with that radar.

I did wonder why the A-scope and PPI had different range settings on the low end (3000 vs. 8000 yards).

WH4K, the stock game lowest range settings for the A-Scope (3,000 yards) and PPI (8,000 yards) are the real life distances that some of the units actually had. Although other units made at different times had various range capabilities. The fact is, there were different configurations of radar units used. Some (like what the game has), used both A-Scope and PPI screens (when they became available) for the surface search units. Others may have had only an A-Scope screen for surface searching. The Air Search SD radar unit usually had only an A-Scope screen (of course this station is not simulated in the game). So, there is a bit of creative license used in making up the radar configuration.

I have the A-Scope unit having a selected range of 4,000, 32,000 and 60,000 yards due to the fact these distances are multiples of each other, making a single "overlay" possible for the screen. The same with my 8,000, 32,000, and 80,000 yard selectable PPI ranges. They are multiples of each other as well. Although in the real world, you would have equipment that need not be multiples of each range, the game uses a different process to render its returns. So, I had to follow the path of least resistance to have all ranges read an accurate radar return.

In my opinion, the American side of the radar game play was really just for show. One screen is red, the other green; pretty aren't they? It revolves, and has a guy standing over them, even when they aren't installed and operational. Just eye candy. In the stock game form, they are worthless.

=======================

You mentioned you "felt" something was wrong about the radar not picking up targets. I get the impression you read my post (just a ways back in this thread) that pointed out the stock radar inability to pick up targets when they were directly in front of you. What I didn't show you in that post is what you're missing when a radar is "tuned" to be operational.

Below is the same group of ships I used for the "stock" radar test. The sub has a heading of due west, 270 degrees bearing.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...pRadarcopy.jpg



Here's what my PPI radar screen picks up on its first sweep, at the lowest 8,000 yard setting.



http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...PIofNavMap.jpg


All twelve targets are visible, and at the correct range and bearing from the sub. Will the radar show every target in all kinds of weather and distances? No, there are factors that still come into play to make the radar not be an absolute accurate device. To me that's good, I don't want it to be a "Gods Eye" overlooking game play. But, it will work as intended which has been my goal.