Affirm Frying Tiger!! A new sim from scratch would be very welcome,with improved graphics and effects,and implementing items like:
1-Global coverage
2-Major ports and Naval bases
3-Controllable Subs+CVBGs(including full operational Carriers+AirWings)

:yep::yep:

I'm a modern sim enthusisit, but lately am starting to lean toward WWII sims myself.

I think the most appeal is the intrigue for the *type* of conflict that WW2 represents, rather than eqiupment/platforms. Its really the last time in history that all major world powers were fighting simultaneously. Its also the last time that a complete and utter *total war* was fought with no holding back and where losses and equipment cost were secondary. Not only that, but it was fought with remarkable parity. That's a pretty remarkable situation, one that intrigues, and captures imagination, especially since it *really* happened, not just make believe. As such a remarkable time breads more interest IMHO.

loved 688i in its day, would be great if remade with modern graphics.

Perhaps one reason is also that DW is basically an ASW sim, which is quite technical and 'slow-paced' by its nature.

I could imagine if you just include other plattforms (like fast attack boats, even coast guard ?) and include other scenarios too (hunting pirates, prosecuting/checking trawlers, which are actually smuggling drugs) and that stuff, the sim becomes more attractive to casual players.

So, the base line would be that casual players are more interested in fast-paced action and are looking more for such scenarios, which do not require a lot of technical skills.
Of course the 3D graphics would then be needed to be improved too.

I could imagine that even then add ons are possible if the price is reasonable (perhaps one add on for ASW stuff, the next more for 'coast guard' action and that stuff).

I really do not see a reason why that should not work. There's even a civilan naval vessel sim for a long time on the market and I think that the described scenarions are more attractive than just simply steering a vessel...

Comments?

Yeah,my opinnion is that a new design from scratch is needed for the community.A game based itself on the Cold War age,involving controllable Subs and surface vessels thus including Carriers,Assault ships, etc,and able to add future expansions contemplating new platforms,weapons and systems from several worldwide Navies.

That would be a quite good start.

For me it's the fact that during World War II, submarines were still somewhat new. The world had seen what submarines could do in the Great War, and many countries had developed and built their own submarines, but advances in technology meant the tactics and ideas developed during WWI and the interwar period had to be re-thought. On top of that, both sides spent the entire war trying to outdo each other, which lead to incredible progress: the first homing torpedoes, the first arguably modern submarines, and advances in anti-submarine weapons and tactics. They didn't have the advanced sonar and computerized systems submarines are equipped with today, and many times the equipment they did have was still being refined and sorted out, yet Allied and Axis submariners alike were able to pull off some incredible feats.

Well, that, and what LoBlo said :p2:

One could argue that the lack of tutorials and un-intuitive interfaces might have something to do with that. I know for sure its one of the reasons I never really tried Dangerous Waters.

Point and shoot is what is key here.

WWII you look at your target at close range, point and shoot, whatever weapon and watch the results.

Post WWII, you spend the entire time looking at sensor screen, fire at targets hundreds of miles away. Wait 20 mins for you missiles to get to the target you haven't seen and not watch the missiles terminal moments.

Nothing wrong with modern hardcore technical sims, but WWII is a lot easier for gamers as the technology was so much more basic and therefore easier to use with a fraction of the range. I don't want to use auto-crew if I can do it myself, I want to immerse myself.

This is why WWII has always been popular for games. Explosions big enough for anyone and easy to understand technology all conducted in visual range. Win, win, win.



S

The man speaks the truth. And it seems that as time goes on, the gaming world's attention span decreases. Modern high-tech warfare games, on the other hand, have to maintain a realistic (pretty slow) pace. This leads me to the unfortunate and very disappointing conclusion that modern naval warfare simulators, especially sub sims, will not be coming back any time soon. My gratitude goes out to SCS for publishing DW as it is definately the best we can expect to have in the near future.

DW is hard for most casual players and the graphics are not appealing at all. This deter most gamers from trying out.

Add to the fact that modern naval engagement involves top secret data and information very much the kind of information that world governments want to conceal or purposely misguide the public.

DW fell prey to this too with no exception.
For example submarine countermeasures which in Sub Command didn't detonate spoofed torpedo now do though then Sonalysts release a patch to make this optional through a probability number.

Other thing such as the towed decoy not able to detonate incoming torpedoes. But the community soon found out the truth through simple logic that if sub countermeasures did detonate spoofed torpedoes why would navy warship still tow a decoy?! :DL. That leads to the answer that sub countermeasures don't detonate torpedoes and as last resort navy warship tow torpedo decoy to detonate them.

Things like this made me believe that most government don't want to see a society well informed and knowledgeable about military aspect of the state. It's understandable though since they regard much of this as a war winning information hence the confidentiality. Public could very well also consist of members of the enemy.

I'm saying that modern military games involve and will always involve substantial dumbing down and purposeful misguided, inaccurate implementation of the real thing be it ground, sea or air warfare.

My two cents on the topic:
In this age of Xbox360 and Playstation2000's, the vast majority of people just don't have the attention span to be looking at a sonar screen for hours on end.
Seriously. I can't name ONE person out of EVERYONE I know who plays video games who would be in ANY WAY able to sit through a single Dangerous Waters mission. Some of them have even compared playing Dangerous Waters like watching paint dry. They are also NOT interested in a game that has a manual that's an inch thick. They generally want to jump right in and blow everything to smithereens.

I, on the other hand am ADDICTED to Dangerous Waters a hell of a lot more than I am to Silent Hunter III. To me, DW is FULL of tension as you're sneaking around or trying to track things without being seen. But your average video gamer isn't going to see that. All they'll see is you looking at a sonar screen for hours.

Not just xbox and ps people
 

The Silent Hunter subsims are all PC games, but I agree with the above about wanting to have something to look at.

For me, it's the sights and sounds of being at sea. Rolling waves, wind, the sunsets, the moon, and the visuals within the boats too.

I was about to post something like these lines. Aside from the historical aspect (modern sub sims are "what if" scenarios as far as i know) WW2 sims are more fun to me because you have more dimensions to play with. Surfaced, and submerged. For instance, i used to think the Type21 was the coolest sub to play with.... until i acutally played with one. It was utterly boring, because i simply didn't need to surface anymore. It was like one dimension of the game was removed, and i didn't enjoy that much.

I think graphic presentation does matter a lot. Otherwise we wouldn't be such suckers for ads. Think of the normal distribution, the gauss curve. There will be few people interested only in the accuracy of the simulation and few people interested in graphics alone (since we're talking about a sim game and not an arcade game). Similarly there will be few people wanting to play as real as it gets and also few who'd prefer no challenge at all.

The majority lies in between. When it comes to choosing a product, only a few will look for the complete features and take them into consideration. Those interested in graphics would dismiss the game if it doesn't look good before getting to know how actually good the product is and how captivating it could get even without flashy eye-candy.

If the game looks good and is attractive then you can get caught in it and it lets you wanting to know more. I reckon that because I like SH I ended up joining this forum and got to learn a lot more about submarines.

I don't think graphics should be dismissed in a sim, as long as the eye candy does not adversely impact the simulation engine as we all know there's a limit of computations that can be done in 1/30 of a second.

The most complete sim I ever got my hands on was a training software for the Airbus A310. I had to persuade the father of one my childhood friends, a pilot flying the real thing, to copy it for me. It ran under DOS, had only a few mega and it simulated a great deal of stuff (I remember spending a lot of time trying to setup the on-board computer before take-off 'cause the thing wouldn't even start without those being set). It consisted only of the on-board instruments, all crammed in one screen. Although fun for a while you sure wanted to take a look outside from time to time instead of imagining how it would look like.

All is true about graphics being vital to the success of a game or even a simulation. The average gamer is all about sensation, not cogitation, and so has little interest in a game/sim who's playing relies almost entirely on the latter. But even a hardcore simmer wants good graphics. For one thing, a simulation is supposed to be as real as possible and thus the graphics need to be as real as possible. Graphics can also greatly effect visual aspects of play such as the periscope, visual sub spotting, air warfare, night/poor weather operations, and on and on because real life warfare involves one hell of a lot of visual detection, tracking and assesing.

This will all most likely kill my own simming career because I'm legally blind. For the most part, the better the graphics get, the harder it is for me to tell what's going on or even where the controls are. But all said and done, the emphasis of thinking over looking and shooting is what makes modern warfare of all types appealing to me as a simmer and that won't change no matter how good the graphics get.

The harder you have to think and strategise, the less time you have to gawk at the eye-candy.