I think "someone" is just out to "start" something here......does it even warrant a reply? Or does it even warrant an off topic comment.....
ie not addressing the title of the thread......
Meh, i won't bite :zzz:

You know, I really tire of the guilt trip that if I don't buy the game the series will die and it will all be my fault, so I must buy it no matter how cr@p it is because the devs love me and I must be grateful and so on.

That's pure BS.

If Ubisoft put out a good game, it would sell itself. If it's cr@p, then people won't buy it. Simple supply and demand.

If the series dies it's not the fault of the consumers, it is fairly and squarely the fault of the developer (yes, I said it!) and the publisher, for failing to provide what the majority of consumers wanted.

To that end, I don't want SH5 to fail, but if it does, I will not carry any guilt. Indeed, I will see it as hopefully a fresh beginning in the subsim genre. It may take a few years, but I have no doubt that an indie dev house will take up the challenge.

In other words, I have as much loyalty to Ubisoft as they have to me...no more...no less...

Thank you. You are correct. A large percentage of our membership consists of devoted career hearty members that fall outside the normal realm. Neal Stevens did post a statistic today referencing a game manufacturer that only sold 15,000 copies of a game in the beginning but had 80,000 patch downloads. That is well over my % estimate. Those facts and others are everywhere.

I simply got on this topic in an effort to explain "in my kind of terms" why Ubisoft is doing what they do. They are protecting their rights to ownership. Yes, SH5 out of the box is a great game to the run of the mill gamer. That is where Ubisofts focus is and with most cause.

Sh5 will play perfectly on the slowest dial-up connection. Only someone with no internet capability has a justified arguement against DRM. The others are whining without cause, which has led me to believe "pirate" in a lot of instances, not all, as there are more dishonest players than not. My arguement was reasonabally based.

Again after reading Michaels letter that Neal posted today I even went to a higher level of enlightenment.

Tell me, how many people d/l the patch more than once?

Stats can be construed to prove any point, 86% of all pirates know that.

I'm not doubting piracy is an issue, but this blind throwing around of figures gleaned from the interwebs is pure lunacy, especially when most comes from the same people who are trying to defend their actions against piracy (ie, hardly an objective opinion or reasoning).

JScones, be careful what are you saying about the devs, because they have a strong army of defenders here! I was even banned a short time ago for doing the heresy to "touch" one of them.:)

FACT: The day my Preorder SH4 arrived I couldn't play it for 4hrs until the first patch that same day was released from Ubisoft.

Posts were so hot around here you needed to keep a fire extinguisher near your monitor. :haha:

I stupidly bought SH4 Gold 1.5 UBM. What a joke.

The only thing that saved it was the Modders. :salute:


The only way I'll own SH5 is if someone is dumb enough to buy it for me.

As for Ubisoft. I wouldn't lose any sleep if they went TiT's up tomorrow.

There'de be a new one the day after.

If I'm gonna feel sorry for anyone it's the Devs.
They were just doing what their Bosses told them to do.

My gut tells me if they would've been given more time and left alone to build this game.

It might have been a U-Boat Sim that would have made History in the Sim gameing world.

Hello Guys and Gals. This DRM thing, does not intrest me in the least. I mean, if I have to log on to a server to install the game, that is one thing. But as long as I don't have to log on after it is installed, Thank God. It seems that, it just may be that simple, and I hope it is. I don't have a good (new laptop), and thats ok, but one day if I want to get a new laptop, I don't want to have to be "connected" to play the games I like. It is not always that I am home on a desk top. So, I know they (the developers) don't want to be taken advangtag of, and neither do I. I have a game I can't play, cause my old system still has the game logged into when the Mother Board went ka put. Will not let that happen again, so I will approach this game with caution. The second that I loose money for something I am not getting, is the last second I will look at a product that is made by the same company. THQ sold me its last product, for that reason. Thanks, see you all next time.

Pirates. How many "pirates" can invade my system throught DRM system?
I like to play offline, because I shut down antivirus then for better gameplay. This is one. I want to have my saves on my PC - this is two.
If I pay for something I pay for all, and I do not want pay for something, what should be mine, if part of it, will be not mine at all, capende?

Well Im with you on this :DL
But yes the negativity is normal Im afraid.

> Only someone with no internet capability has a justified arguement against DRM.
> The others are whining without cause

Don't mix your opinions and facts.

Customers have wishes/demands/requirements.
Ubisoft has requirements.

Fight Piracy is one, amongst a list of many more.

All must be taken into account (along with their relative importance), in an attempt to find an acceptable, and hopefully the best compromise for both parties.

From where did, in your opinion, the legit SH3/4 purchases come from? From the casual gamers? Because +15,000 for each game, no matter how small a number, is more than the number of members registered here at SubSim, I think. Add to that, the number of purchases from communities that also like to support the sims. And what you get is a less 10-5% (say, probably 20% maxing it out) incidence of pirate gamers for SH3/4. Sure, if you venture into some other community, or into the casual gamers realms, there will be a lot of pirated copies there, but here, I think most of us are aware of the benefits for all of us of paying for our sims.

Yes, that's the counter-arguement "to buying the game even if it does not match the level of quality or features expected to keep the franchise alive", and who knows, maybe you're right. We're about to find out :)



Guilt, loyalty, fault, blame.... all just feelings. My PC won't run those and output a simulation. You're not alone is feeling "Ubisoft is not producing a game worth $50, I'm going to stick it to them". But I don't think that is going to produce a happier result than buying the game and pushing for continued support. I'm glad people didn't adopt that stance when SH2 came out, for there would have never been a SH3.

And regarding an indie developer producing a detailed subsim, what makes you think they can do better than Ubi Romania? That's a dream, the closest thing I've ever seen in 20 years to an indie subsim is Enigma and Shells of Fury. :hmmm:

Edit: let me add this, Jaesen. I am NOT saying you are wrong or incorrect in your opinion. Not at all. But I "think" in the end, only continued sales of the current SH game will compell the only subsim game developer/publisher left to approve of a next one in the series. If you're football team loses week after week, no one wants to pay to see that. But if every fan stays home and the stands are empty, game over, the team will move or fold, and then there's no chance they will ever play and be competitive. Except in the world of submarine games, unlike sports, there's a lot less to choose from.

Edit 2: Lol, I can't let this one alone :D Last thing I want to say on the topic: With SH2 and SH4, games that were released with problems, I cheerleaded with all my might ofr people to buy them regardless. I am NOT doing that now for SH5. If everyone decides to pass on SH5, fine. But I don't think people should hold their breath for another Silent Hunter sim. Al good things come to an end sometime.

Sounds like you want to have your license to cake and eat it.

"Happier" is a feeling too Neal...who's going to be happier? You? Me? Ubisoft? Will my PC turn "happier" into a simulation? :hmmm:

You've reinforced the point I was making. ;):O:

Well, there's a number of people here who like to remind everyone that the devs are working for us and all dodgy design choices are the cause of Ubisoft, so, the solution is easy. The devs leave Ubisoft Romania, form their own company and develop a new series of real subsims, free of the evil and bad Ubisoft.

Maybe not another SH... but what about surface ships?... we've been asking that for years, the SH saga (specially its MP mode) would be incomplete without the ability to be able to control those that hunt the hunters (and bigger). Besides, I refuse to think all is lost, that this is the end. Yeah, it's looking not so good, but it's not dark yet.

Cheers :rock: