Please don't piss off the finns too much as Sako is my favorite firearms manufacturer.

Quoted for posterity and simple amazement.

You could print a book from those, do you keep him here for amusement value?

I don't think you understand how hated the US is around the world. But like I said, go ahead and shoot yourselves, if the second amendment produces a lot of dead Americans, I'm for it. :yeah:

Just some recent news.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/22184505/detail.html
http://www.wfsb.com/news/22181447/detail.html
http://www.wptv.com/content/news/cen...r5IbFxy6g.cspx

Aren't you the guy who is usually playing the racist card on others?
Now what would you call your last post?:nope:

Are you saying Americans are a race? :06:

Happy Times - the informal "loan for security" between Frei and his friend on the second case would depend on the state law regarding transfer of a firearm. Without knowing the law where he lives, I can't say if it was legal or not. However, it was his intent as he stated to recover the weapon shortly, only to find that his friend had hocked the weapon. That act - hocking the firearm when his friend did not have true legal ownership - is what is unquestionably illegal.

What about the paperwork? Was the weapon legally Frei's to begin with or was it a 'hot' gun to begin with? That's the feeling I'm getting from the story.

No, not at all. But isn't it usually you who is screaming bloody murder if someone expresses his dislike of certain people?
I am just wondering why someone who is seeing and pointing at racism everywhere (whether it is there or not) shows a total undifferentiated hate towards all ~310 million people who are living in a certain country.

OTH - you really do make this too easy.

I read all three articles you listed. In the first, no shots were fired at all. An irresponsible person who had a gun had his taken from him through a judicial process - so what you did was prove that our system can work. Gee - you scored one for the good ole USA! Way to go! :har:

In the second, a person who had already been convicted of a crime had a firearm - thus the case has nothing to do with firearm laws since he was violating those laws by having the shotgun in his posession. However, its interesting to note that the bad guy is the only person that got shot.... If a violent criminal wants to endanger the public by having an illegal firearm and happens to get shot because of it - I say thats fine. If he happens to get killed - one less violent criminal and one less problem for our society. Seems to me to be another win!

THe last article isn't about an incident - but about an area that sees a high number of shootings - attributed to gang activities. Once again, the article has nothing at all to do with legal gun ownership or usage, but with a criminal element that ignores firearm laws.

Now we could examine legal firearms use by citizens. Here are some nice links.

http://www.wlky.com/news/22063314/detail.html

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_story.aspx?storyid=117155&catid=14

http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=10758963&nav=2CSf

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/01/burglary_suspect_killed_at_she.html

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7201121

http://www.click2houston.com/news/22117126/detail.html

http://cbs11tv.com/local/dallas.subway.robbery.2.1403109.html

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/home-invasion-suspect-recovering

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/22122338/detail.html

http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/80635977.html

http://www.news-bulletin.com/nb/index.php/news/1309-Burglary-suspect-shot-by-Jarales-homeowner.html

http://www.mercedsunstar.com/168/story/1261133.html

In each of these cases - a firearm was instrumental in keeping a person alive, protecting property, or injuring/killing a criminal. I don't lose sleep over the criminal elements of my country being taken out by law abiding citizens, and I in fact sleep soundly knowing that I have the same right and ability to defend my family and property - using lethal force when justified.

The facts are that an armed citizenry suffers less violent crime than an unarmed on. Look at the violent crime statistics of the US vs Europe. Even without the "manipulation" that European authorities use in reporting crimes (such as a string of burglaries in three adjacent apartments being reports as a single crime) - the US still has less violent crime by percentage. There is a reason for it....

Thanks for the initial links - its always nice when an opponent provides data that proves himself wrong and me right.

If I say I am in favour of the second amendment, does that mean I am "showing a total undifferentiated hate toward all ~310 million people who are living in a certain country"?

CaptHaplo,

Hey, I didn't even mean to start a debate about this but good to know you all are really sensitive and stuff about the whole thing. Keep it up. :har:

As a response I suggest people google the gun crime/death/injury figures of US and the rest of the western world and compare them and the respective gun legislations of the various nations.

Wow, you really are a piece of work.


@Freiwilliage, I heard nothing but good things about the CZ. I think you will be pleased.

Sounds like a very underrated firearms.

Ahhh - Another strawman from the OTH fella...

Quote:

As a response I suggest people google the gun crime/death/injury figures of US and the rest of the western world and compare them and the respective gun legislations of the various nations.

See - this is exactly what I was talking about. My comment was NOT gun crime/death/injury figures. What I stated was:

Quote:

Look at the violent crime statistics of the US vs Europe.

There is a big difference between the two - and you well know it. But hey, I guess since you can't win the debate on facts, you have to try to change the topic of the debate. Good attempt though.

Also - as I noted above - your continued presence and attempt to steer the discussion, though failing - does at least show that your earlier statement was not true. You do care!

I want you to know I am confident that your heartfelt concern, as evidenced by your involvement in the discussion, makes many people feel really all warm and fuzzy. You try to make out like you hate Americans, when really you just love us all. How.... touching.:haha:

I'm beginning to wonder that myself. Neal has the patience of Mother Teresa.

So if guns kill ~ 10 000 people in US per year while at the same time only few hundred in all European nations...this means nothing to you?

Yes, I do love you, I love you to death. :DL