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-   -   Iron Coffins Redux (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151614)

AVGWarhawk 05-14-09 07:58 PM

For Christ sakes Roald that is a darn book you wrote yourself! Let see, let me go through my list of books on the uboats:

'U-Boat Commanders in WWII' Jordan Vause
'Operation Drumbeat' Michael Gannon
'Torpedo Junction' Homer Hickam
'Silent Hunters' Theodore Savas
'War Beneath the Sea' Peter Padfield(this is the best book on the u-boats I have read to date)
and
'Iron Coffins'

Roald
Quote:


I just don't believe that what you say is well founded. Either part. "It is a great book". It is a book that contains lies about the most significant events it portrays. It "provides a good picture of what happened in the boats." How do you know? What does "good" mean in this context? It has a high degree of verisimilitude. It is exciting. By these standards, yes it is good. But if by "good' you mean "accurate", I ask again, how do you know? I suggest that it provides a slanted and inaccurate view of how things were in the boats; that it paints a too rosy picture early, and a too horrific picture late.

First, Iron Coffins is not the one and only book I have read on the Uboats. See list obviously. How do I know IC paints a good picture? Well, amongst the other books I have read on the subject, they all have a recurring theme. It does not matter if any attack account is true or not, the general theme is present in each book. A battle that will not be won. Each book demonstrates this whether it be from an author who did the studies and interviews or an author that commanded a boat. As far as the rosy picture early war, it was rosy. Let's face it, the uboat commanded the seas. Churchill biggest fear was the uboats and it was not unfounded in the early stages. There was the happy times. These men were treated well. Wine, women and song as it were. As far as horror towards the end of the war, yes, each book had the same theme. It was horror. What, is it 75% of the crews did not return? Crappy odds no doubt. So, lets take a look at the title of said book. "Iron Coffins". Does this title somehow equate to a book about really cool attacks whether accurate to the letter or a bit fogged over time of incidents to actual writting? With this title I would think and do think the book is not going to be pretty and the ending will be much worse. The title is exactly what the author wanted the reader to know about the uboats. These machines were iron coffins. The attack accounts are nice and fill a void to enhance the writing. If they are not accurate to the letter then forgive an old warrior for the inconsistancy.


Roald
Quote:

I have no doubt that it is your opinion. But it is only an opinion, not an established fact. If you want to set aside the proven lies and assume that everything else is truth, go ahead. I see no logical reason to do so. I do not suggest that everything in the book is false. I suggest we have reason to doubt that all the rest is true. I suggest that it is provable that some claims beyond the sinkings are false, and there is no reason to think that the only false things in the book are those that are provably false.

My reason, in a nutshell, is that many submarine game afficianados are basing their understanding of u-boat life on unreliable sources. I want them to realize that the impressions they have taken from these sources may not be the correct ones. I have even seen Iron Coffins cited as a source for mod design decisions. I want an accurate simulation, not something dolled up to match fiction.
Yes, this is my opinion and not established fact. Your fact finding is the accounts of attacks as not accurate. Not a lot to go on to make this book seem worthless. Does it detrack from the overall theme? Not in my opinion. These embelishments do not take from the overall books idea of a losing battle in the authors own mind and world. Besides for some flower exciting emblishment, what would the author gain by knowingly making these attack so exciting? A few more book sales? Probably not. Was he perhaps reminicing and adding some grandure to his memory? More than likely.

As for your second paragraph above. As you can see, my list of books on the subject are a bit more than just IC. For you to say that some mods based their design decision on IC soley or just a passage is completely incorrect. I can guarantee you that the creaters of GWX have a library full of uboat information. If I really needed an answer to a uboat question I could not find my first stop would be the fellas who made GWX. These guys have studied this for years to bring the best in accurate simulation as the game will allow. If I really wanted to know convoy routes and battles I would visit Lurker and his OM mod. Lurker has information gathering skills that would make the Library of Congress blush. No, design decision were made with every shred of actual evidence they could get their hands on.

At any rate, to what end to rip this book to shreds because of some attack inconsistency? Perhaps these inaccurate accounts lead to other inaccurate accounts on how life was on the boats? Certainly but my other readings on the matter would and do dictate this is how life was on the boats, flowers or embelishment not withstanding. Therefore I still stand that IC is a 'good book' on how life was on the boats. Maybe not the most accurate but a good picture compared to my other readings.


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