I think the big picture has been lost here. Despite what you think of the political situations and the boundaries in Isreal and Palestine, Hamas (the elected Palestinian government) instigated this latest chapter in the conflict.

It doesn't make much sense to start a fight with the Big Dog then get pissed off at the Big Dog for beating you up over it.

That kind of reply (Subman's etc) is textbook example of misinformation. It's assuming that Israel is merely responding. It forgets that Israel killed some 30 Palestinians in Gaza during the cease fire. NOT after rocket fire.
By the way the rockets are a nasty psychologic weapon but hardly a threat to Israel. Less than 20 Israelis killed in 8 years, compare that with what Israel has done during the cease fire alone and now.
It's totally reversing the situation, and here we're just talking about Gaza so it's easy for the irrationnal Israel supporters to close their eyes, put all the blame on Hamas and be done with it. Even though they also forget that Israel didn't mind killing civilians long before Hamas was elected and even long before the very creation of Hamas in the late '80s.

Anyway, what about the West Bank then ? No rockets are fired there, and what is the result, do they live in peace with Israel on this side ? No, Palestinians get booted out of their home daily, some of them for the second time in their life, settlers beat and sometimes kill Palestinians far beyond the international border and get away with it, they burn or uproot olive trees that belong to Palestinian farmers, the list of offenses goes on and on and on, and nobody gives a sh!t, why, because no lousy rockets are fired so there's no one to blame.
Israel doesn't want peace, it wants the Palestinians out. Look at Jerusalem day after day they're grabbing more land. This city was once supposed to be the symbolic capitol of the 2 states, but in fact Israelis and most US representative consider it an Israeli city and are longing to move their ambassies there.

But let's focus on the lousy rockets fired by lousy hamas, no doubt that stopping them is the key to happiness for Palestinians.

As i thought. You failed to denounce it. I prove my point.

Conversation closed. No sense arguing with someone morally corrupt and as biased as yourself.

-S

If I'm so full of mis-information, show me how the 30 killed was not a provoked attack. Israel only responds, never initiates on any Palestinian thing i have ever read.

I believe your statement qualifies as king of mis-information. I'm waiting for your answer.

-S

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1034284.html

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1038499.html

And something interesting:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050402.html

Geeeeez!!.....and I get ridiculed for posting a bloody joke :nope:

Anyone can argue/debate the rights and wrongs of either side.....but until a third party can clash the heads of both sides and bring them to a) a ceasefire and b) the negotiating table in an effort of reconciliation.....I don't see any tangible/effective answer to this madness.

Without trying to give EITHER side my sympathy/understanding, I don't see any way forward until people realise there are consequences to their actions.

Shocking, revolting and downright ugly. Worst part is that you probably think it's true.

Mikhayl, I think you're as biased here as anyone else. Here's one comment:I don't use arguments like this because they are clearly one-sided, thereby skipping over the obvious truth that one could just as easily say that the Palestinians don't want peace, they just want Isreal out.

You're glossing over the behaviors of Hamas ("lousy" rockets? Come on, man), and instead focus upon the behaviors of Isreal. That is the very kind of thinking that makes the peace process damned near impossible.

As far as which side I agree with in the conflict, I believe the Isrealis are operating in the best interest of their nation. From YOUR VERY OWN LINK:Attacking *militants* is not the same thing as indiscriminately lobbing "lousy" rockets over a line on a map. Those rockets clearly have no ability to seriously impact military targets, so the only result (which is also predictable), is to bring heavy retaliation from the Isrealis.

Hamas may as well just have shot at their own people.

:rotfl:

Amazing how quick the "conversation is closed" when your getting handed your hat in an argument.....

What.
A.
Joke.

Of course I'm biased, never said otherwise. The links I posted are the Israeli side of the story to make Subman happy, and I very well read the bit you quoted, by an "IDF spokesman". If on your side you go on and read the Palestinian side of the story they say that the Israelis hit a family house.
What's make the peace process impossible is the never ending expansion of the settlements, even Rice once said it. And since Obama thinks that Jerusalem should be the undivided capitol of Israel, and that Netanyahu has good chances to be elected to replace Olmert with the help of orthodox freaks, I don't see any of that changing except for the worse.
And you're only half right about Palestinians wanting Israel out, look at Fatah. The empty suits in Ramallah don't care much for their people as long as they get US taxpayer money and get to talk here and there in Europe and the US and look important. Hamas IMO are just as stupid as Abbas and his clique, short sighted idiots, but they fill the need for someone standing up. Gazan get killed and starved but they're not getting booted out of their homes by settler freaks while the IDF looks and does nothing. Tough life.

Edit: and it's spelled I-s-r-a-e-l, isreal is like nukular :)

Hello this is SUBMAN0 i'm from der future. Well America land has no problem murdering millions of black people ... soooooo ... are you an inbread?

How far in the future are you from?

Well since you live in Sweden that means im about 1h in the future.


-S0

That's OK Zachstar, I've got your number. IP addresses don't lie.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/820/74676388wl8.gif

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1449/98541639ah2.gif

Clever eh?:shifty:


Australia it is!:p