I wonder if Obama's supporters know just how happy Obama is that Bush did this?

Obama wanted nothing to do with something so controversial early in his term.

I don't think he will be able to avoid it as he'll be doing the same thing come February with the other 4 billion mentioned in PD's link.

The whole thing is driven by the Democrats anyways...

Yeah, mostly I agree.

Democrats have essentially presided over the economic collapse as of late.

In fact, I believe they may have even lost seats in the Congress if Obama wasn't so wildly popular. People seem to have forgotten that Congress' approval is lower than Bush's.

Personally I don't believe Obama will be any more effective than Bush in solving our financial troubles. I don't blame this on the Dems, or the Republicans. I blame it on their hopelessly corrupt advisers. People like Paulson, Bernake, and Greenspan. I truly believe they should be put up against a wall and shot. They are all smart enough to understand what the possible effects of their "economic engineering" would be.

PD

Good post. In some ways, I agree. But I think the overriding problem is not so much corruption, but rather that these nitwits actually think they understand the workings of our essentially fiat economical system.

For instance, the reason stocks are so unpredictable and soemtimes volatile is that they aren't really based upon tangibles. In reality, emotional responses can effect the market more than real results. There's just as much money to be made from buying and selling as there is from actually investing.

It's common for people to sell stock from well-performing companies just because the market in general is tanking. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy because people actually SHOULD engage in this behavior. If they don't, others will and the people who stay lose money. It ends up hurting the company, the investor, and the market.

It's a very emotional system with few rational bounds. For anyone to think they really know how it works is not too plausible. I mean, do a poll. Ask 100 people how the Dow Average is calculated. I bet 99 have no idea.

Neal, you commie!:p :D

I'm sure you're not surprised that I disagree. I can't think of one good reason to keep the auto industry around any longer than the market allows. We're just putting the inevitable "FAIL" on the state's charge card.
This country performs poorly in a number of industries because this is no longer an industrial country. The standard of living has exceeded that provided by that type of economy for quite some time now. Many goods are simply not able to be produced profitably in America, and that's ok.

For the next step in our economic development, we need look no further than the market. Can you imagine what a nation with our resources, labor pool, and remaining social freedoms could do if we had an economic policy like that of Hong Kong? Heck, we could make it even more business friendly. We don't need factories or smelters or what-have-you on American soil to prosper, we just need to own the companies that own those facilities.
The easiest way to do that is to embrace economic freedom and step away from state control. We already have just about everything a global industry could want, and eliminating corporate taxes and excessive legal constraints could only help. We might even get some outsourced factories back as well.

Whether you believe that scenario or not, much of our industry will end up being outsourced, anyway. Nothing can stop that. No matter what measures the state takes, it cannot beat the market. Money always finds a way. Imo, the worst thing we can do is let the government get involved in any significant fashion. All we end up doing is concentrating political and monetary power even further.

Notwithstanding all that, the Federal Government has no power to issue bailouts to begin with. Neither that power, nor anything remotely like it, is enumerated in the Constitution, so they simply don't have that power. End of story. The longer we tolerate this state of affairs, the further we drift from the ideals of choice and liberty that made this country great to begin with.
The more you fight the market, the more you lose. How many pathetic socialist economies does it take to prove?

Right you are, or else you will end up with a service based economy like the UK has thanks to Thatcher. Your auto-industry has screwed itself with bad management UK industry got screwed by the government and the managers.

It's amazing to me that everyone is willing to point the finger at anyone but themselves. What roll did the consumer play in our economic woes? Hmm?

Oh, and the big 3 are failing because they make a crappy product, and foreign manufacturers make a superior product for less. I agree with someone above who said that the government should have no decisions in who fails and who succeeds. In this country, the right to succeed comes packaged with the right to fail, and if you want to run a business as blindly, and as follishly as the big 3 have, then you get what you have coming.

I am out of work, due to the economy. I drive a toyota, because it is better than a ford or chevy, and it cost less. Now my government has decided that not only has the economy cost me my job and possibly my general well being, but I will also have to pay to fix it. Oh, and since I never buy an American truck because its an inferior prduct, and since thos companies are run so poorly by foolish, arrogant people, I will now have to pay for that too. I hate this bailout. LET THEM FAIL, as failures do.

I have a Toyota Corolla and a Chevy Cobalt.

I have owned the Toyota for 4 1/2 years

I have owned the Chevy Cobalt for 2

The cobalt has been in the shop once in the past 2 years because the gear shifter would not come out of drive, thus i could not turn off the car's ignition, so if i wanted to park somewhere i had to leave the keys in the car :nope:

The Toyota... not one problem - nothing but routine oil changes and tire rotations. NOT ONE PROBLEM in 4.5 years of daily driving.. hot, cold, ice, snow you name it... not a single problem

Prior to that i had a 1999 WS6 trans am... a flip up head light failed twice, the exhaust flange came loose three times, the fuel pump died once, and i had numerous electrical problems with the vehicle throughout my ownership of it. - this all occurred within a 2 year span of daily driving - this equates to having the car in the shop once every 3 months on average

Finally sold the car... a $30,000 vehicle - get this... for a whopping $12,900

Vehicles are a rotten investment... yet whenever someone comes into money its always the first thing they rush out and do... buy a new car! :nope:

an expensive shiny new car that wont be worth its weight in dog crap 3 or 4 years down the road.

lesson learned... from now on, im buying foriegn, im buying for utility and reliability

Those were my sentiments exactly, and I purchased a 2006 Toyota Tacoma 4x4. I love it to death. Kicks the ass of every jeep, ford and Chevy I ever owned...

It's the Russian women you know. It corrupts you every time.:up:
Yes, I would like 2 scoops of sourcream on my borsch.


hhhmmm borsch.

This is old-school US auto industry. My parents owned a ply-mouth voyeguer. What a piece of poop. Our van ran so poorly, GM just gave up and re-placed the whole thing. And the replacement had issues also.:x

Not a service economy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gd...-by-sector.png

PD

Well the two cars I have owned have both been vauxhall.

The first was a Nova that when it was scrapped had gone round the clock almost twice, the engine and running gear were fine just the body was starting to suffer from rust. It was 12 odd years when it died.

My current car is a little 1.0 litre Vauxhall Agila, not fast but I can fit a 3 seat sofa in it and close the door. And when the snow comes, I have left bigger heavier cars behind when going up a hill. I'll never buy brand new and will probably get another Vauxhall or maybe a Honda.

No neal Government should help new companies. Small to medium ones. Those who are trying to make something and get somewhere. Give opportunities for new entrepreneurs the right to start a business and see where it takes. Yes its risky but that's business. Why should we keep beating a dead horse?

Those large companies owner don't put a cent back into their own business. Tax payers pay for it. Let them close and help build new industries.

Put back tariffs and help restore the countries economy. What is globalization? But a handful of people who control the world while the rest take handouts. Slaves to the masters..

But what can you do when a government it totally corrupted and bought off on all levels.:nope:

By the way investors will also get screwed when they belly up.:-?