The problem is if religiousness is neurologic / genetic these people really believe in it, so it must be accepted like someone being left handed or gay. I also thinks thats the general consensus these days, accept and don't try to reason, but resist when they try to enforce it on anyone.

Be careful to conclude from different brain area activity patterns on different hardwired neural characteristics of the grey matter, that would be premature, if not foolish. while hardwiring of brains does chnage over time and under certain cicumstances, or so it seems since latest research, brain areas never meant to contribute activity to any given function nevertheless can learn to take over parts of that functionality, if the major areas associated with this function go offline, due to a physical damage after a trauma, for example. If that relearning of brain areas automatically means a "material" change in regional neural structure, or if it just about the whole brain simply redsigning the distribution of it'S regiponal potentials to given tasks and thus the rbain chnages all it'S functionality all together, currently it completely unknown, and one amongst several working thesis at best. I know you hate to hear it, but a brain is no CPU.

Watson just weeks ago took heavy flak for his remarks on intelligence potentials and genetic predispostion of different human races. while that at least could be imagined to be a possibility, it is far from being "proven fact". at this status, it certainly was very stupid of him to voice his beliefs loud in public. that he would be accused of being a racist he had to expect, then, and since the object of his opinion is no proven fact, he maybe even deserved it.

Concerning religious genes, take babies from religious families, and give them to families of other orientation. I bet with you any time that they will develope differently, according to the changed environment, and many of them so differently that noone will see any need anymore to argue in favour of the existence of a religious gene. What I could imagine, though, is a genetic representation of characteristics in an individual'S psychologic potential to adore authority/Alpha-wolve's leadership, or to resist it and prefer more independence. that this would have an effect on the individual'S readiness to embrace a religious theologic dogma serving as a leadership instance that it got fed with by it's parents, and to will to fall under the spell of that dogma's hierarchic structures, or both these things not, is self-explanatory.

Well I read there have been many cases of ppl who developed extreme messias complexes after a stroke, and that religious visions of englightenment can be caused by stimulating particular brain areas, but apart from that I am really not qualified on the matter. It just makes sense to see it as a certain "type" of brain like that of the mathematical genius or left hander.

the difference in brains of mathematical geniusses and lefthanders again is regarding the activity patterns in their brain's regions. That there is a proven material differences in material brainstrcutre so that you could say "this is the brain of a genius/lefthander", I never have read or heard.

Imagije the brain'S solid matter to be like a chessboard, and the different postiitons you set up with the pieces to be "activity" or "thinking". You could rwch the same position in different moves, maybe, or use the same pieces so create different positions. but the cheasboard remains one and the same. It does neither chnage the number of fields it contains, nor does it rearrange the way in which they are arranged. That two plaxer agree on playing the ruy Lopez or the Sicilian Defense, will result in a string of moves that has some variance, but nevertheless will always qualify for an observer to be described as the ruy Lopez or the Sicilian Defense. the first may be is "seeing", the second maybe is "solving a Sodoku". Every once in a while, you see somebody leaving the theory of the choosen opening, and do a stupid move that looses him the match by ruining the position. That's is the equivalent of a mental idiot in this analogy. And every once in a while you see doing somebody a different move, and it it so brilliant that this compares to what you call the mathematical genius.

Only an analogy, of course, and it describes only a major approach on what brain is. I would not know, since nobody does, how to describe people who can hear a sound, a musical note - and immediately by that get flooded by a stroing visual image of a coliur their brain for whatever a reason associates with this sound. It is not a choice of theirs to do so, it is as real for them as is seeing the difference between a green meadow and a blue sky for you and me. If this is a differenbce in their hardware, or thgeir cognitive apparatus, or the way their brain functions - currently nobody can say.

We also do not know where to sort in NDE, near-death-expoeriences. There are so many cases where medical experts beyond any doubt made clear that the brain was dead and not functioning for a given period of time, and nevertheless people were able to make detailed, explicit descriptions of the situation and the room and the event for that phase of time when they were considered to be without consciousness before and afterwards anyway), that so far any attempt I ever read or heared of to explain the dying brain'S "terminal euphoria" as a a final chemical overdose the body is prodcuing, to be almost hilarious. Since the multi-cultural reasearches done by Osis&Haraldson in the 70s, including tens of thousands of sngle cases being examined and statistically calculated, we even know that this experience includes key items that are the same in every culture, and thus cannot be explained by culture-dependant differences. Also, the studies by Grof, and some others, strongly recommend themselves for arguing that obviously there is a consciousness and awareness that is beyond the brain, and an existence beyond life. And you do not need relgion at all to argue in favour of that. Thanatology, and brain research, especially the first having been over several years an area of special interest of mine in the past, have a very huge and interesting literature to offer instead. the art is to filter out the esoteric stuff that contaminated these fields so heavily since the mid-80s. but I have stopped to think about that too much anymore. Thinking leads you so far only, regarding these issues - and not beyond.

Near death experiences are quite explainable, using simple biology and science skills:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/41428.php


Simple. It has nothing to do with God or some spiritual being. It's just energy in the brain and the simple fact that energy cannot be created or destroyed. When you die, you die. We're not special in the universe. Honestly, I don't know why people get that impression (despite the fact that they're usually too ignorant to correlate the plains of the black desert we know as "infinity", and henceforth have no understanding of life beyond our own). We're a microscopic speck of dust in the gulf of space, one in a hundred billion trillion planets, not even including other galaxies. We believe we are special, but we're not. We're simply spiraling coils of self-replicating DNA.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ic/deepsec.jpg

That image shows a microscopic portion of the universe. Every speck of light (almost every speck, anyway) is a galaxy, some of which are titanic compared to our own. Why do we think we're special? Why do we think that we have all the answers? Our minds cannot even grasp the concept that existence does not revolve around us. Why should we cling to some apparition of the heavens instead of looking to the answers (despite the implications it could have on religion)? We're a doomed and simple species in an endless zoo, and we believe in God because we're afraid of the truth, plus simple-minded people are looking for an explanation to everything around us, so they choose the quick and easy answer rather than investigate.

Blah blah blah. Fact is that damage to distinctive brain areas results in distinctive inabilities like loss of speach, long term memory or the ability to connect the right and left hemisphere. No one is saying the brain is modularized like a metro plan but in the end all activity follows a certain pattern. For example thats why you could see lobotomy leads to certain personality disorders, or people with damage to a certain part of the parietal lobe cannot count anymore.

Yes, of course, but for certain people the world would be empty without such myths.

True. False hope can spur people onwards.

And concerning your comparison with the universe, from what I know skybird believes that your brain contains the universe and vice versa. So you will not impress him with any world model that does not allow for something to be singular and infinite at the same time. A nice concept actually.

Interesting article. But then it raises another question: Are we only physical in our nature then? Is our "self" confined to the explanation that the "indivdual" is only grey-matter, electricity and neural synapses? When someone has an 'out of body' or 'near death' experience, do they see themselvs as a brain with a couple of eyes attached floating around?

In 2001, in the journal Resusitation, a year long study by two British scientists of 63 heart attack victims showed that at about 10% reported having well-structured, lucid thought processes, with memory formation and reasoning, during the time that their brains were not functioning. The effects of oxygen starvation and drugs were ruled out.

So, science is able to prove and disprove itself at will it seems.

I am convinced the human brain is capable of conjuring up any conceivable dream. I was once talking to someone who said when he was 6 years old "he could fly" - during the day, when he was awake - he couldnt explain it any other way.

I don't give too much on the doctors claims that there was absolutely no brain activity. They couldnt measure it, sure, but why shouldnt the brain cells continue glowing faintly for another couple of hours?

I had to smile when I read: "about 10% of a total of 63 cases". They could have put it: We interviewed some people and 6 said they had dreams during cardiac arrest.

Actually, the report as I understand it, was far more detailed than the simplified version I posted... ;) and I'm trying to find an Internet citation. The info I posted was from a book I have documenting such "phenomena"...

However, I find it significant that even 6 people in the study were able to communicate their experiences accurately and lucidly after their "event'. This would lead inevitably to the "existence of the soul" discussion as the ultimate repository of "self"....

Sure it is a fascinating subject.

It must actually be even more so when you experience it yourself. Personally I have experience a strange phenomenon: an inability to remember if I dreamed certain things - relative unimportant ones - or if they actually happened. I think I dreamed them but I am not sure.

A personal experience: Back in 1980, I came very, very close to drowning in an accident on a lake. I'm an excellent swimmer, a well certified scuba diver and I have no fear of open water. I won't recount the details leading up to the event, but suffice to say, at one point I was literally breathing water...

The most remarkable part of the experience, and one I've remembered faithfully for the last 28 years, is that after the initial panic, I became very calm and knew I was going to die. I was surrounded by a pearly grey/white light and the most incredible peace came over me, a peace I've never felt since. I had no fear of death at all...

Suffice to say, circumstances evolved that lead to the saving my life and I'm still around to tell of the experience.

So, while I'm sure that there are myriads of possible explanations, I "know" and "feel" inside myself that there's more than "just a brain" involved. The problem with trying to explain this kind of feeling is that it can't be quantified or measured scientifically. Yet you know...