This is exactly what I actually thought as I´ve read the last posts in this thread. I have looked forward to this mod and want it (speaking only for me but I´m sure that many of the subsim-community are thinking the same)...translated a few words to german for OLC.

The point is, there have to be a way to get this mod...depends on both sides....OLC and KL. When there is a will from both sides then there is a way for the community to get this one.

Please don´t let this mod go down the road of never seeing the light of the world in SH3-GWX.

Maybe the GWX Team can release this mod as optional mod with 1.04 with permission of OLC...how already said if there´s a will then there will always be a way!

I appreciate the work and many thousands of manhours, spent by the GWX Team and every other modder to improve and further SHIII.:up:
But the owner of every single file is still UBISOFT. It is their property, no doubt about.
We all legitimate owners of the SHIII-licence have only the right to use this simulation.
Any modification, regardless whether it is only small or it is that big like GWX, still belongs to UBI. And they need not even say "Thank you."
And I doubt, if the GWX Team or anybody else has a written paper from UBI telling that from now on GWX is the owner of the files, they reworked.
It is a (moral) duty to give credits, shure, but no modder should ever "not allow" or even "forbid" another supermodification or rerework. Never ever.:nope:
Nobody except UBISOFT is in the legal position to permit or forbid anything.

Yes the files all belong to Ubisoft, however, as was discussed at length here once upon a time there is a certain modding etiquitte that should be followed. And most of the modders on the forum agree to it. Its pretty much a given norm that mods are the work of the people who made them, even if the canvas belongs to Ubi.

And it was decided as part of said ettiquitte if the owner(s) of said mod(s) say, no you may not use it, then that's that, case closed. What was decided on these forums here was a sort of moral consensus.

I agree with FriedL9te's point of view that ultimately Ubi owns the files and thus indirectly the mods made with those files. It was their idea and their files that ultimately gave us this game and thus the mods made for it. BUT I agreed to this forum's etiquette and thus if a modder say's no it's means no on this forum. But outside this forum one cannot control the actions of others. I, for one, would not do such a thing for I have integrity and thus respect the decisions of others.

Friedl9te is correct in what he says yes. Ubi does own the files, that gives them free reign, not us. However, its the modders work on the files that makes them what they are. Its the work, that we ask permission to use. In effect, modding ettiquite is all about asking can I use your work for the basis of mine for this end result. Its like borrowing a friends tools.

OW ffs...

this kind of topics have been overtalked..about the so called permission
its not about ''who bloody owns the freaking files''
its about having a bit of respect for others work on the files.
thats whats the permission is about...having a slight bit of respect

but nah, some prefer to have some cocky attitude about something so small...
there is a lot more to get out of SH3 when people work together instead of trying to make eachothers options to mod it as small as possible.

I don't usually post on this thread, I'm kinda getting into SHIV now that the patches actually made it pretty much work as advertised.

However I stumbled across this thread and took a look at the screen shots and was REALLY impressed. This is just the kind of thing that raises the bar - the better UI in SHIV is now possible in the 'better game' SHIII.

I'm quite new to subsims and this forum, but I do check it daily. And this is the first fall out I've EVER seen on this board... and I am actually shocked.

My initial response was to shout "Boy's stop being so bloody childish and get a grip!", but that was hours ago. I've come away and thought about it from both sides.

I think I understand that GWX is an 'on-going' mod, and that at some point 1.04 will be released. Great stuff 1.03 is awesome! So I can understand the 'project manager's' feelings that ANY work that alters 1.03 and therefore could have a serious knock on effect to 1.04 would need to be checked and cleared with the GWX team first.

I also understand what the thread originator was trying to do, and that is something that as of 1.03 has never really been address in GWX - making the periscope view the central and only point for the setting and launching of the torpedos.

I think his work is fantastic, brilliant and totally needed. I even like his arrangement.

What I want to say is this, and I hope that I will not be 'attacked' in retaliation and I do not profess to know of any / all the backstory between the two parties involved...that being said...

We are ALL here to play and enjoy these games as much as possible. It is WITHOUT DOUBT that the GWX team has gone above and beyond to out class and out perform the original dev team for SHIII. They are genius' and should be praised as such.

However I was open mouthed and blindsided by that attitude and approach that the 'project manager' took IMMEDIATELY with the mod designer... It was (in my opinion) rude, harsh, unwarranted and came off as VERY, VERY ELITIST. Snobbery.

The kind of thing you hear kids saying... "...these are MY toys and YOU can't play with them!!! Mom! I'm telling !!!!"

Now I am NOT 'having a go' at anyone, but surely, in this forum, we all love these games and want to enjoy them and really appreciate each others skills and efforts.

So why can't the 'project manager' just back down, take a deep breath and play nice? And why can't the mod designer just for the sake of the greater good, apologise for SEEMING to 'tred on GWX's toes' and for them both to work together and release something VERY valuable and worthwhile - for the WHOLE community.

We're grown adults, playing a serious game - can't we put the pettyness and territorial 'pissing matches' behind us and just get along?

I am very saddened by this thread and the attitudes herein, NOBODY works on ANYTHING IN ISOLATION. In every game, walk of life - anything, we ALL stand on the shoulders of great men and women who have gone before us and allow us to reach just a little higher.

Surely at the end of the day, it's not about ''ME, ME, ME'' - but about the SHIII / Subsim community as a whole.

The GWX team wouldn't have been able to do what they've done without UBISOFT, UBISOFT couldn't have got that far without knowledge and experience from other people and companines and so on all the way back to cavemen picking up rocks.

The mod designer was just trying to reach a little higher.

For the benefit of everyone, can't you just settle this?

Elphaba

This UBISOFT/ownership/rules debate is pointless. There are no rules here other than those that we choose to impose on ourselves. I could release the mod and there'd be nothing that anyone on the GWX team could do to stop me, and we all know it, so debating the "rules" serves no purpose. The reasons I'm not releasing the mod are dignity and self-respect; some (perhaps many) people here would think less of me if I did release it.

I challenge any modder here to deny that they take pride in their work and that that pride swells when other people like and enjoy their work. If that pride has to be swallowed in order to get the mod released then the point of releasing the mod is (for the modder) destroyed.

Therefore, to make this mod releasable I'd need to rework the images I've made, all of which used GWX tga's as a base (and get permission from JonZ and FLB Sale to use their images as well). That would be quite a bit of work, and to face after that the prospect of all the rework that (according to Kpt. L) will be required to make it compatible with 1.04, I'm not sure it's worth it. To be honest, the witholding of that infortmation (the compatibility with 1.04) despite my prior requests for it has infuriated me far more than anything else, because its simply spiteful, and I'm quite shocked that not one member of the GWX team bothered to have the decency to inform me. You'd think that even the most rotten tree would have a good apple on it somewhere...

I was quite content to let this roll on without getting involved. Not now.:stare:

It's comment like that which work against you and you have just demonstrated why you were denied permission. You have no respect.

Who the hell do you think you are? NOBODY, outside of the GWX team get's information about unreleased files. Everyone else waits for a general release, why should you be different?

Put your toys back in your pram and resume sucking your thumb.

Feck, this forum is going down the crapper.

Yes, thats why: release it for god sake!
I really want it :P

About this permission thing: in case of your mod its not required - in my opinion, cause your mod was intended for use WITH GWX (as i understand it) and would be used by those who have gwx installed. If gwx can mod stock sh3, than you can mod gwx, isnt it?

Besides, you sure must have done a lot of work on this mod, dont waste it.

And i don't care about 1.04 anymore; its not here, 1.03 is here, and while waiting for next version why not mod current?

And you, I presume, think you are somebody? That speaks volumes.

I did not ask to see GWX 1.04 files, I simply asked whether certain files were being changed in such a way that would make my mod incompatible with them. That's a yes/no question. A single yes or no is hardly giving away critical information from the project that you "somebodys" are working on.

Having read the "rules" very carefully after KL's PM, I decided his interpretation of them was valid and my post here asking for permission followed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...leys/happy.gif

Oh, bravo! Nicely quoted!
You have just proved to the whole forum that you are quite willing to be deceitful to get your point/way.

Shall I post my actual response so that everyone can see what you did?

Now, who can spot the difference.

Nice try dimwhit.

Yes, I edited out the question mark to highlight the meaning that your comma (the one right after "nobody") rather obviously implies.

Edited to remove unnecessary and inflamatory comments.

OOOhh come on! Stop fighting!
Think of all those new people visiting subsim everyday - they want to play sh3, they heard a lot about how well sh3 is modded, they wanted to found out what they can do with their game, heard a lot about GWX, heard a lot about this place, and what...they read this!

Just calm down.