Let post a couple more things about these new low energy lights

1. Mercury is used in their manufacture, so if you do use them, do not simply just throw them away - you must properly dispose of them to avoid having the Mercury get into the land fill. (can we say - possible health hazard in the home?)

2. They make a buzz or low hum - not good to someone with sensitive hearing like i have.

3. Insects love them! More so than a normal bulb. Apparently, insects will like to crawl inside the tubing and perish in there.

4. Time to light is about 30 seconds to several minutes, depending on temperature. Not probably the best solution for a cold place for this reason alone.

Last but not least - if everyone is so worried about the energy they could save and the less pollution that these lights can bring through less use of coal fired power plants - maybe we should not be looking at the light bulb, but looking at those coal fired plants in the first place? One nuke plant can take over the duty of many coal fired plants and nuke plants are increadably clean energy!

My last thought - you can put these bulbs all around your house all you want, but something tells me that no matter how much energy we save, not one (let me re-emphasize this) NOT ONE coal fired plant will ever go offline to make up for it. When I have watched the industry in the past, if one market doesn't use that power, they simply resell that power to another market.

Don't kid yourself on thinking you can save the environment by buying light bulbs.

-S

1. a) Not a big health hazard in the home because i) the level of mercury in in very small amounts. ii) It is sealed in the bulb and only released if you break the bulb (the glass on CFL bulbs is usually thicker than normal bulbs and they do not "blow"). iii) I have a thermometer on the wall full of mercury and it does not worry me at all. ;)
b) The mercury is easily disposed of if you follow the disposal instructions provided by your local council (UK). Landfill sites have far bigger problems from people throwing batteries in the bin. Batteries have far more mercury than ES bulbs.
c) Ultra low mercury bulbs are now available.
d) The single biggest source of mercury comes from power stations. The total amount of mercury saved by not using as much power is greater than the mercury in the bulb. i.e. these bulbs put less mercury in the environment than standard bulbs.

2. Not all of them buzz. You can buy ones with no buzz. I have both types in the house.

3. Totaly impossible. The bulbs need to be air-tight to work as they contain a mixture of gases. No insect or microbe I know of can pass a air tight seal.

4. Bulbs time to full light continues to get faster. Even before they get to the full brightness, the higher-watt bulbs are still very bright.


RE: "Last but not least."
Damm right! we need far more nuclear power plants as well as other environmentally friendly power sources! Nuclear waste really isn't a problem to dispose of. The nuclear material is more radioactive (but less dense) when it is dug out of the ground anyway!

RE: "My last thought."
Power plants can not re-sell power because it is extremely expensive to store and can not travel long distance. If people are not using it than you can not give it away! If people stop using as much power then the only thing the power plants can do is reduce the amount of power they produce and the coal the use. All modern power plants are very sensitive to changes in electricity usage, they even burn less coal in the night time because people use less electric then and produce more power at the end of big football events because so many people get up to have a cup of tea! (UK). Power plants do this because it makes financial sense.
That said, I don't care too much if they are good or bad for the environment as long as they are cheaper! I can't afford big electric bills and I cant afford to keep changing my light bulbs.

Good points SUBMAN1.

Now, I remember when saving energy was a new thing many years ago (before these new bulbs) and it was suggested to use lower Wattage Bulbs and use less often such as SHUT OFF THE LIGHTS WHEN YOU LEAVE THE ROOM.

Now, that sounds like a way we could lower our Utility Bill. This could save us money that could be used elsewhere like maybe a new Power Supply for the Monster Rig to play SH4 or Crysis :roll: in the dark ;).

none of our energy efficient lights buzz.

I've never broken a thermometer in a wall. Can't say the same about lights. Do we need a discussion on the dangers of Mercury?

Maybe in the UK is is easy to get rid of. But still, this is just another thing to worry about in life that is a pain in the butt.

Mercury is still mercury. Trace amounts are still harmful to the body, and it will cause nerological damage.

No doubt coal fired plants are the cause of major problems - get rid of them is the best solution. Win win for the environment. Nuclear is clean energy, and efficient.

All if them buzz. Even the ones that don't buzz by label, I can still hear.

Read above again - I didn't say into the fixture, but into the coils.

Still you are waiting. If I have a high wattage bulb in there, it is because I need high wattage light. ANything less than what light I have specified for that particular fixture is not enough.

Nuke waste is a minor problem compared to any coal fired pollutants released by any coal fired plant. Battelle labs has pretty much fixed the disposal problem for the US. Not sure if the UK is using any of its techniques.

I think it is time to start a debate on nuclear power vs. coal fired power. I hate to break it to you, but coal fired power will kill our planet. The disposal of nuke waste is an easy thing to cope with (over the alternative - coal) since the majority of global warming is caused by coal fired plants.

This is not true. We here in Washington routinely sell power to California and the entire western half of the country. Maybe it is different in the UK, but out here, everything runs at near capacity 24/7, and if we don't buy it, someone else will.

A famous company called Enron used to be a key player in reselling power to other states. Remember them?

This should be your main motivation for buying the lower energy bulb. The thing you really have to ask yourself is - will this one bulb save me enough $$$ in power bills in its life to offset its much higher price tag?

Such a novel concept! I think the rest of the world should read this instead of trying to fix the problem with a broken solution.

-S

Nah, turning off the lights is too easy, and discredits Al Gore.:cool: How about we all just turn off the lights and buy night vision goggles? Problem solved.:)

I already have some. I walked into Costco once looking for a coffee table, walked out without the coffee table and had night vision instead. I'm a sucker for gadgets though - I buy everything. Turns out, I used it so much, it is still operating on the same batteries I had in it years ago. Shows you how useful it is after the novelty wears off!

There is one really good use for these things though - comet watching / Astronomy. With these things I can pick out way more of the trails and very low light objects that people with fairly large telescopes can't even see! When a comet goes by, I can see the full tail with it - though its all green, but thats a minor point.

-S

Ooooh, how much was it?

Bout 10 years ago - $400

That is how long I've had it. Saw it the other day. Its case has a layer of dust on it! But it still works. Made by the Russian company Zenit.

-S

Instead of calling them "energy saving bulbs", can we all just call them "fluorescent" bulbs? There's a phosphorus coating on the tube -- it "fluoresces" when hit by the ~250nm light (UV-C). LED's are energy savers (close to 23 lumens/watt, now) in comparison to the regular 9 volt flashlight batteries (4-6 lumens/watt). Krypton and halogen bulbs are energy savers (20-25 lumens per watt) in comparison to walmart incandescent bulbs (15-18 lumens per watt).

I use as many fluorescents as I can. The 4-foot lamps start instantly with high-quality ballasts (you'll have to install them yourself), making them perfectly usable in high traffic areas. CFL's everywhere else. I like the CFL 5100K bulbs with a 85 CRI (colour reference index), but some of my 4-foot bulbs are 5000K with 93 or 95 CRI. The white light is wonderful, as opposed to that yellow 2700-3100K light that filament bulbs put out.

If your fluorescents are lasting long, you have power problems or the ballast is poor. Penny-pinching marketing bastards have cut costs on the starters and ballasts for so many years, the specifications are horrible. Run down to Lowe's/Home Depot and buy some decent quality ballasts. Run you $20-30 each, depending on your configuration, but the operating voltage and current will be far superior.

In the end it all comes down to light quality for me. A financial saving in energy bills of let's say 50 Euros over 5 years is unintersting for me. I have a higher starting investement nevertheless (more expensive bulb, which I really feel at the date of buying it :) ), and in the following years the change in my bill for electricity probably even will not be noticed by me. I couldn't care less for having saved one Euro per month, or not.

Give them a better representation of the colour red (this is where they technically have immense problems), and make them produce light that is of such comfort level and warmth like the bulbs we are used to, and I can buy these bulbs - and not caring for environamental or fincial debates nevertheless. I know that there are various Kelvin-valued bulbs available. But even those named as "warm daylight" I perceive as cold, hard and harsh. And this is the dedicing argument against them for me. I also argue against a room temperature of 16° Cin winter, although it saves a lot of energy for me. :lol: you can live and work in that temperature scale, no doubt. But it feels okay in the sleeping room only, in all other rooms it does feel neither comfortable, nor "gemütlich".

I would expect that in the long run, LED light is the way to go anyway. they use even less energy, are very endurable and robust, and already can prpoduce surprising ammounts of light. But again, immense problems with colouring, and light focussing (letting them perform poor over the distance). I use them in pocket lights and bicycle lights only. They have many advantages, and no disadvantage except this: living comfort of LED white light is zero. Hope they will find ways to get the white colour much, much warmer, and "yellowish".

Please tell me why the minutea of a light bulb is a topic?

'never mind, lightbulbs are not provocative'

I've never broken a fluorescent bulb....
I have sat with my ear up to one of the none buzzing ones just now......guess what.....no buzz.

Which bit do you call the coils?


We have just started work on a few zero-emission coal power plants. They work by chemically solidifying all the gases they produce and preparing them for burial. So not all is lost for coal.
In the UK all power goes into the "national grid". The power plants are owned by different companies who charge their customers on a percentage system. Our power plants where recently reported to be running on 95% capacity. 5% is still a hell of a lot of spare energy, but there is a big drive to build more power stations. When the power stations produce a net surplus for the national grid it has nowhere to go out side of the grid, it is stored in capacitors for a while and eventually drained off.
By 2020 20% - 30% of the UK's power will come from renewable sources (wind, wave etc). (only 30% if the rest of the EU achieves similar targets).

Hehe, only an American would say that it should be my "main motivation".
The bulbs usually last 6 - 16 x longer than standard bulbs. This is the main saying. I am yet to replace one..

Im all for banning them, easy way to save a lot of energy.