And even if they did, it would be a waste of time and resources, given the high amount of possible "false positive" results. What to do then? Conclusion from the PDF I linked to:

Hehe, no way. I recognize the paradox, understand the problem but if you want me to take sides, I side against this signing statement, in favour of the 4th Amendment. So feel free to open all letters from terrorists & suspects, if the warrants are too slow for the shady suspects, bummer, pass the letters over to the CIA then.

If it had 99% accuracy, that wouldn't identify 3 million people as terrorists. That would mean that if there are 1000 terrorists in the USA we would either catch all but 10 and 10 innocent people would be accused.

There's no way to achieve 99% accuracy, though, and no way to check the accuracy of any method in use because we can't have a definitive count of all of the terrorists in the US.

I dunno, it's kind of hard to explain. And in any case, they may not read the mail to prevent a terrorist attack. They may find someone who they know is a terrorist and monitor him/her to find more terrorists without tipping all of them off. In that case, a warrant, and therefore the 4th amendment, could be a hinderance because the hypothetical terrorist could find out that he/she is being watched and avoid incriminating anyone in the same terror cell.

One of the most abused quotations on the Internet! :yep:

The author is verified as Franklin. From WikiQuote:
And the question is obvious:

What essential liberty are any of you giving up? Do any of you really believe that a warrant will be issued to open your mail specifically and for no relevant reason? And in this nuclear (dirty or otherwise) and chemical day and age, do you really think that the concern here is only "a little Temporary Safety"?

Here's a more relevant quote:

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

Most of you recognize that as the quote attributed to Japanese Admiral Yamamoto after Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. Whether he said it or not, the quote reflects what actually occurred over 60 years ago.

Over 5 years after 9/11 and after following fellow American opinions as expressed since then and as demonstrated by many on this thread, I can sadly say that a large part of America has rolled over and gone back to sleep.

Im a little tired of people trying to equate the "war on terror" to WW2. Little hard to declare and wage a conventional war against a nationless entity that knows no borders, nor wages a war in the conventional sense.

back on topic...

"Papers... papers please....
Your papers are not in order, we're going to have to detain you."

We're not going to win the "war on terror" by slowly devolving into a police state. Signing statements allowing the government to circumvent the law to nose into peoples mail (normally a federal offense) is one step in that direction. They already watchdog the internet searching for "items of intrest". THey already evesdrop on phonecalls. Now their going to go through our mail. i mean christ, the CIA is openly recruting for "clandestine services" on the local radio stations.

One thing i learned in the military is that complacency kills. No bull****. I wonder if it can also kill a nation. I think we are slowly erroding into a police state, but were being bull****ted about it so we dont openly see it. One day people are going to wake up, and wonder what happened to the land of the free.

Exaggeration? Sure, but if get more people Bush in office that are slowly increasing the power of the executive branch...... maybe not. Bush, according to the BAR assocation has issued more then 750 signing statements. More then any US president in history. It's in effect, a line item veto, or a sort of nullifaction of what a bill was supposed to do. It allows him to indirectly override bills passed by congress, and congress can't do a damn thing about it. .. and unless im mistaken, congress represents the will of the people more then any other body in our government.

Precisely. Roll over and go back to bed.

Let's rewind a bit.......
It isn't. It has the potential to be much worse.
Thanks for backing up my point.
Who asked anyone to legislate carrying around national IDs and allow for street corner interrogations?

Hype.
And again I asked how this was permissable at wartime in the past if it's so obviously unconstitutional?
They'll get what they pay for.
At this rate, it will be caught with its pants down.

Backing up your point wasnt my intent. There is no such thing as a war on terror. The whole notion of it being a "war" is sheer ****ing propganda. How can an entire nation be war with a handfull of mass murdering ragheads, and their ideas born out of religous hatred as if they were a soverign nation? You can hunt and kill the men responible like the criminals they are, but you wont kill their ideas. Going about it like were charging up the shores of Normandy will only justify their ideas to other arabs, and they pick up their cause as a result. In short, thing go for bad to worse.

Again, THIS IS NOT WW2. Its an entirely different problem, Riding on the coat tails of history so we feel wam and fuzzy is not the way to go about it.


The insintuation was the way things are going, that is entirely possible.

Heres what i said earlier in sarchasm:
"Lets say in 5 years from now, the "war on terror" is still an oval office buzzword, and we're all requried to have indentification/authorization papers to travel from state to state. You know... so they can spot terroist movements :roll: .. I wonder if anyone will care. After all, if you havent done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.:roll:"

hence later i said, "papers... papers please".


Now, lastly, Since your from Isreal, i say this as an individual american citizen.

My country, My problem, I'm entitled to my beleifs on current isssues in my country and ill be damned if ill put up with some Israily telling me what to do or think or about how my country should be or do is this that or the other thing.

I'm a US citizen, as is my husband, his parents and siblings and our children.

But even if I wasn't, just how do you think you would not "put up with some Israeli"? Who told you what to do or what to think? Or are you alergic to other people's opinions?

Think before you type.

Oh Lordy.......Don't get me started. :roll: :D

yes ... yes ... I agree.

But if you know the kinda "Good ol Boys" I know and run with... the kind that can shoot a gnat from a deer's ear at 400 yards, I don't believe that will happen with out a fight.

Unless we let them take away our weapons.

Those worms are still in the can at the moment.
But I do have to say there seems to be less of us "Good ol Boys" now days.

Yeah, I remember that story. :)

Didn't start the Stasi in a simular way?
So, whats next?

I am constantly annoyed and angered by those who keep plugging the idea that we're in the middle of some continuous state of war with "them" and that we ought to be less worried about our governments taking a bit of our freedom here and a bit of our freedom there because 5 years ago some guy sent a throng of extremists to the US.

Avon Lady keeps referring to WW2. Theres that constant intimation that we're fighting for our very survival. That cause someone got through the perimeter and made a of a mess in New York that somehow that's the same as Fascism in Europe and the Japanese in Asia. I don't mean to minimize 9/11 but frankly I find it offensive to the memory of WW2 to try and say that we're even in the same ball park.

Im along those lines. I resist the notion of "war on terror" for one major reason.

People, human beings, we think in language. If you can control or influence what lanaguage people use, you can control or influence thought. The Bush administration often uses words that play on american sentiments for this very reason i think.

The term "war on terror" conjures images of the nation in a world war.. Like were all supposed to pitch in to the effort and make sacrafice - and i think we should. However, where's are all the public support? No no not bumper stickers, yellow ribbons, or American flag pom pom's.

No, im taking about REAL support. Real war mobilization. I dont see or hear about any mass wartime production to keep new Humvee's or Bradley's rolling off the assembly line, or mass produection make sure theres no shortage of any needed equipment, no rosey the riveters, no draft, no local community drives asking for people to chip in whatever scrap metal they could donate for the war effort. None of that. Just the goverment, putting us under a magnifying glass, and nothing more. But since we think of it in terms of "war", we're more apt to accept whatever the bush administation decides to do.

Now this isnt to say that the goverment shouldn't make things harder for Terrorists internally. We need to. However there has to be red line that the goverment should not ever cross. When our own goverment starts skirting the laws that exist to ensure our rights as citizens, laws that our founding fathers put into place for a reason, and arguably out of experience,....well.. somethings not right about that.

Nice find, but it doesn't verify it: "and denies that he wrote it". It does state that it is likely Franklin who wrote it, but that's what I said in the first place.

And it's still an essential truism; "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile".

Totally agree with this. This 'War on Terror' does threaten the lives of innocent people, but nowhere near to the same extent as World War 2 did. In my opinion, all it really is, is a western culture trying to enforce its own methods on a region that really doesnt want it. No offense intended for any Arabs, or Middle Eastern residents, but the Middle East isnt exactly known for running like a well oiled machine (no pun intended)

And whilst Saddam is dead, now its pretty much open season on governmental power of Iraq, as it has left the various clans with very little resistance if (and when) the coalition's troops pull out. Its my opinion that in due course, we'll see another Saddam.

I must admit, it did pride me to see Britain and America working together again, but I feel war is and was a somewhat rushed, brutish decision. I dont remember hearing much about negotiations before we all went in, and every day people die because democracy is such a huge step for a place which has relied heavily on shows of strength and decisiveness in order to maintain peace (or a form of it)

But back to my point. Iraq and the War on Terror shouldnt be compared to World War 2 in any way, maybe it shares some similarities with Vietnam (but I dont know much about it) but its still just a group of people who want to incite the hatred, its not really a war, its a manhunt.

Speaking of which, where the HELL is Bin Laden? Everyone seems to have forgotten about that sod.