SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - FSAA/Anti-aliasing/Major resolution problem (merged)

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- - FSAA/Anti-aliasing/Major resolution problem (merged) (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106588)

One of my biggest gripes so far, is that with the Post-Processing Filter turned on, the darker colored objects look black. Not dark. Black.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjw985

literally VHS a to HD-DVD type of come-to-Jesus rendering joy.

That bit almost had me spraying a mouthful of coffee on my monitor!

:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjw985

Hi Neal,

Let me preface this by clarifying that I'm a long-time listener, first-time caller type of guy... I spent alot of time with SH3, read Subsim quite a bit, but never really had anything usful to contribute that had not already been covered in excruciating detail. That's a compliment to the quality of the board and the members!

I hate that my "first post" has to be a complaint, but the fact is my disappointment compelled me to comment.

Anyway, you are correct that the GUI and 2D componenets of the display are fine. They scale appropriately with resolution. The problem is that the actual "action" image is not showing the proper level of detail that should be associated with the extra pixels on a high-res display.

As suggested above, I ran SH4 in 1024x768 mode. The GUI/panel was appropriately upsized, but the action images looked perhaps a little better - still distorted, but more smooth, and in 4:3 or therabouts instead of widescreen. Basically what I would expect for 1024x768. In any other application that I have used (running the gamut from DLL'd SH3 to rFactor to FSX to Supreme Commander and more than I frankly care to admit) 1920x1200 would be a knock-your-socks-off improvement in detail and clarity - literally VHS a to HD-DVD type of come-to-Jesus rendering joy. That is DEFINITELY not happening here.

The attached screenshot is about right for a zoomed image. By the time you see the ship that close, you're well into your attack run. The problem is that due to the poor resolution, longer range (less zoomed) views are not good at all. Again, in a normal game or application upping the resolution should clear that up no questions asked. That dynamic is absolutely not at work here. I have tried.

I hope that this is something that "got broke" right before Gold and nobody caught it, but I suppose only time will tell. What is indisputable to me is that the program IS NOT rendering the quality that should be present at 1920x1200.

And it's one of those 37" Westinghouse 1080P displays... definitely the best "upgrade" I've ever made! :)

Anyway, here's to hoping that the devs or some smart guy in the Subsim community figures out how to make the renderer work properly.

Just my humble opinion, but I think the complainants actually have a point here.

Ok, I'll go along with it, especially since I'm pretty much a large-monitor-idiot-savant... minus the savant part. It would be great if this is something that broke in the last RCs before gold, and they can fix it, but I won't bet on it. Like I said in another post somewhere, seems like the SH series has always been a step behind in resolution choices. So, it appears one of the system requirement should be "not suitable for viewing on large monitors".

Thanks for the kindly introduction, you remind me why we started this website in the first place.

cheers
Neal

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintlock

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjw985

literally VHS a to HD-DVD type of come-to-Jesus rendering joy.

That bit almost had me spraying a mouthful of coffee on my monitor!

:D

Yeah? What size is your montior? When I spit coffee over something funny, I have to deliver the stream with pinpoint precision or it misses the monitor.

I'm feeling monitor-envy around here... :ping:

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkuth74

Quote:

Originally Posted by OddjobXL

I don't know if these reports about scaling are correct. One guy, on another forum, who is a professional sim reviewer was responding to comments along these lines. He's using widescreen and high resolution and seems to think it's working fine in SH4 with no distorting or cropping. One point he made was that screenshots in 1024x768 32bit always come out at 2.3mb while his screenshots for SH4 in 1680x1050 are coming out at 5mb.

So...maybe there's something else at work here?

That is interesting. But a Pic at 1680 1050 is going to be bigger then a 1024 768. Remember people are saying the guages etc scale, but not the 3d.

Exactly.

Here is how to see this - take a screenshot at 1600x1200. Then, take a screenshot at 800x600, and using Photoshop, resize it to 1600x1200. Notice how the '3d world' looks identical between the two images, and the only thing different is the gauges? That shouldn't be the case!!

Now, using the SH3 'fix', do the same thing in SH3. Take a screenshot at 800x600 and resize it to 1600x1200, then another at true in-game 1600x1200. Notice how they look very different. The "true" 1600x1200 shot will look MUCH sharper.

I read something here that say the resolution in settings stick at 1024*768, if you try to change it, it return to 1024*768.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...0-14-46-22.jpg

But in this screen posted by someone here we can clearly see it's in 1600*1200.
Or maybe I just dream of the sticking 1024*768.... And if it's true we can put any resolution we want!

Quote:

Originally Posted by http

I read something here that say the resolution in settings stick at 1024*768, if you try to change it, it return to 1024*768.

But in this screen posted by someone here we can clearly see it's in 1600*1200.
Or maybe I just dream of the sticking 1024*768.... And if it's true we can put any resolution we want!

The menus/GUI can be set to the correct resolution, however, all of the 3D objects remain at 1024x768. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by http

U CAN set any resolution what u want BUT 3d engine is fixed and upscaled from 1024x768 = u have still same big pixels like 1024x768 on all resolutions, still same jaggy graphics because is it still 1024x768.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiler

Turn off post processing filters.

Did that, sadly no noticeable effect on the resolution issue. I think FR jumped,though.

I can confirm I am unable to force FSAA on SH4 using an Nvidia application profile as I was able with SH3. I have not yet had time to play around with high resolutions.

Yes, I canceled my pre-order because I am a "will not support lowres on my Dell2407 nut" but this is what is kind of my last hope for full resolution.

I have no SH4 to prove it but here is what is my basis

1.) In Previews I read much about the great graphics
2.) I also always read "be aware to have finest gfx card to see all candy"
2.) now people report it runs smooth even on mediacore system with all max
3.) resolution looks like upscaled 1024 with software blur

Hmm, can it be that there was a last month decision to set "max_res_internal" to 1024 to be able to shoot for the "mass market" (like UBI-Marketing: "We want all candy without the prize. We cannot have SH4 only run smooth on 8800+ or 1950 systems with 2gigs. Development has to deliver that! yadda, yadda")

Yes, I am burned, hahaha. I guess I have been in too many Marketing Meetings over the past years :) :)

Quote:

Lifelike graphics and spectacular audio/visual effects offer an incredibly immersive gaming experience. Witness historical accuracy and amazing attention to detail, from breathtaking Pacific settings to more than 75 authentic-looking war machines such as the U.S. Gato sub, the Japanese Yamato flagship, and the Kawanishi aircraft.

It is this quote from the Features (Official Home Page) that annoys me.

They fail on both audio and visual effects as far as I'm concerned.

At this moment I feel SH3 gives me a far better immersive gaming experience!

To recap:

At resolutions over 1024x768...

1. The 3D/Action section of the bridge and external views generally appears to be at a fixed resolution of around 1024x768.
2. The periscope view appears to have a slightly higher fixed resolution.
3. Any 2D screen such as the navigation map is at the set resolution (i.e. rendered correctly.)
4. Any 2D part of the screen such as menus are rendered correctly over the top of the poorly rendered 3D view.
5. There is some AA going on even at 1024x768
6. The problem doesn't appear to relate to the make or type of graphics card.
7. People with large high resolution 1680x1050+ screens will be the most affected.

The original SH3 res fix does NOT currently work with SH4.

There are no obvious user changeable entries in any config file to fix the problem.

The question of resolution was quite a hot topic with SH3 since SH3 ran at a fixed resolution. It was promised that SH4 would not have this issue.

No Dev or UBI official has commented thus far.

I feel the reason for Ubi's silence is because, if and when they make a comment it will be something like...

"The resolutions are working as intended and are not broken, therefore there is nothing to fix."

And saying that right now could lead to lost sales. Notice how they never answered the simple question of whether or not Anti-Aliasing would be supported in SHIV? Imagine if they had had the guts to simply come out and say, "No, Anti-Aliasing will not be supported". That would've actually taken some guts wouldn't it have? What they want to do right now is make sure they get all the money they can before they start telling people that they aren't going to fix the industry's very first 'upscaled resolution in order to fake a higher resolution' and whatever other issues they aren't going to fix.

I hope I'm worng about that but that is my fear.

What really irks me is that, indeed, they have not said word one about this yet. I feel they have had enough time to come on out of the bomb shelter and say something by now.