SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - [REL] Living breathing Ocean

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- - [REL] Living breathing Ocean (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119064)

I was just thinking of asking LV if he knew of a tweak to enlarge the wave rendering radius.

Then in I pop and someone has gone off the deep end LOL:o

What an awful way to try and get your point across, I see people with the same attitudes about SH4 in the SH3 forums all the time.

Certainly did not expect it here.

Anywho back on topic LV, is there a way to expand it, if so I have a very high end machine and will test the tweak to its max to see how far we can comfortably expand the waves running at multiple resolutions etc.:up:

Okay for a start I am not going to comment on anyone's opinions of my work

trying to improve the game and make it more realistic for all of us. Some people like this version of the Silent Hunter Sim's and some don't. But I don't bad mouth their work actualy I think what they are doing with the SHIII game is awsome and I look forward to using a lot of it when I play it again some day! But there should be some mutual respect between modders and players alike and that is all I will say about Wave Skipper's post.

Now as to making the waves appear further out than they do might be possable to achieve but I think it is in the camera adjustments that will make this happen and I truly havn't looked into it as I don't know the first thing about how they work. I personaly have sent out P.M.'s to several people who have done camera work in the past for SHIV and I hope they will consider working on a way to make all the new effects I have done and now working on appear better in all views.

First problem is getting the camera's to make all objects in all outside views show them the same size. In the fallowing ship camera, free cam and Bridge cam all need to show things the same size first.

Then find a way to extand the camera's view range of the environment.

Those are the 2 main problems that need to be looked at first. All objects like for example the sun and moon need to look the same size in all normal view's first then if that is done it is easier to extend the viewing of the ocean environment without distortion of the effects.

The only problem I see in doing this is a FPS drop which might be a true issue for some people out there. The higher end PC's will probably be fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wave Skipper

I have looked over all your pictures and the FIRST thing I note is that you have a pile of higher waves in a circle around your boats and ships - where ever your camera is centered. In SH3 this same thing took place but the circle was much wider and less visible until you climbed to 200 meters. You guys are getting off on how great the waves look 150 meters around your boats and are ignoring how utterly FLAT the sea appears just an arrow's shot from your boats. Is this the result of your tinkering or did the game come with this flaw?

I see how you guys are flipping out for the better water effects, but I still note that much of the renderings of the sky and lighting look cartoony. One problem with this engine - it attempted to render too much - beyond its true capability. Sh3 stayed better with in the boundaries of its capability. SH4 attempted to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and this only highlights its unreality. It reminds me of the early attempts in Hollywood to create computer generated animals for its movies - such as the half baked desert Leopard(?) in the movie Hilalgo. By going to the very limits of what their graphics abilities were capable of they ended up rendering a crapy cat and showing the ragged edge of their deficiencies.

In like manner SH4 went too far for what Ubi was capable of and you guys are pushing it even further. Now you have a nice PILE of higher waves and this just accentuates the sad fact that you have pushed your little engine to an RPM far above what it can handle. ARE YOU GUYS NEAR SIGHTED OR SOMETHING? Put on your glasses so you can see further away! There was a reason Ubi kept the waves down. To add more realism to their water they sacrificed the width of the wave circle that surrounds the center of every camera shot. But in doing this they brought the range at which the distant sea appear flat and waveless. Got it? Thus they had to keep the waves way down to prevent this sad fact form showing too much. Now you have strethched the envelope and ripped it open for all to see - THOSE WHO LOOK.

All of this is about art. If you focus on some character in a cheap novel too much - ask too many questions about him - shine the light deep upon him - a story will begin to fall apart!

Aside from all this, you guys still have not noted the cartoon effects in SH4 art. Colors are not quite right - skies often look strange - especially when you guys mess with them, and the crew look comic book flat in the control room. Bad coloring.

I have searched the web for one picture of a US sub in moderate seas with a multitude of little waterspouts shooting out of its hull, and while I have found some with one or two, I have yet to see one that looks anything like the silly little spouts in SH4.

In computer art it is ALWAYS best to stay within the limits of your medium UNLESS you are aiming at strange or modern art.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

are you kidding?

There is months and month of work in this mod to make it as real as possible.

Leo, you dont have to justify what you are doing, the rest of the community here including myself appreciates all of it and it goes without question making the game the best it will be on a realistic level.

Guys work on these mods for FREE, is said "FREE"...and coming across this way is a slap in the face.

Amazing. :damn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by leovampire

The only problem I see in doing this is a FPS drop which might be a true issue for some people out there. The higher end PC's will probably be fine.

Which may be the reason it was left that way by the developers. Contrary to Wave Skippers "logic" (I use the term loosely) it may not be a limitation of the game engine so much as the limitations that older systems (such as mine) impose on a developer attempting to make the game usable by as many folks as possible.

Personally, I don't stray too far into the atmosphere, so it doesn't make much difference to me (unless it causes a major fps drop).

I do agree though about seeing the waves further

away from the sub. I have a high end machine and I would like to see it as well! But I am not willing to learn more things right now to figure out how to make all this happen.

Concentrate on the now and deal with the rest lator! For me anyways! Anyone who wants to make a better camera mod for the game is truly welcome to it and totaly apreciated!

BTW thanks for the support guys it is apreciated!! I don't want a war between modder's here nor between SHIII and SHIV work! I just want us to play, mod and enjoy as friend's and fellow enthuiasts of the series.

kv29 / Digital Trucker / Chopped50Ford / I3th4L / Seadogs / Billko / Jhereg and anyone else who chimes in over this in the future!

And thanks to John Channing for steping in and saying what you did because your right everyone is entitled to an opinion!

Quote:

count me in :up:

Sorry Leo, did not mean to come across as wanting you to do yet another magical mod!

I was just wondering if there was an easy S3D setting change you knew of so I could test LBO,K2,Env Mod, and TM1.6 to their limit.:arrgh!:

Shame it is not just some dropdown "makem waves further out":rotfl:

You have plenty on your plate already!!

Thanks again.

oh no no worries Jhereg

I want to see this in my own game just don't know how to do it myself! So I am reaching out for help to other modders that is all!

There are guys out there like Anvart who can do things I could never even think of doing or accomplishing for the game and we just need to wait for them to work on these things for us that is all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

that is is always easier to sit in the back seat and second guess the driver, than to actually step up and get involved (if you will excuse a mixed metaphor).

JCC

Good point JCC ^^^, concerning LBO, I have read comments from veterans here that they now feel that they are back on the ocean with SH4. Great mod and then some :up:

RDP

Thanks for this Leo! Its a sweet experience. :up:

I wanted to show you guys some of the new work Kriller and I are combining effert's on. My reflection work and his Coloring and DDS file work.

http://static1.filefront.com/images/...l.thumb250.jpg http://static1.filefront.com/images/...t.thumb250.jpg http://static1.filefront.com/images/...m.thumb250.jpg http://static1.filefront.com/images/...r.thumb250.jpg

http://static1.filefront.com/images/...m.thumb250.jpg http://static1.filefront.com/images/...t.thumb250.jpg

http://static1.filefront.com/images/...x.thumb250.jpg http://static1.filefront.com/images/...w.thumb250.jpg http://static1.filefront.com/images/...b.thumb250.jpg
http://static1.filefront.com/images/...v.thumb250.jpg http://static1.filefront.com/images/...u.thumb250.jpg http://static1.filefront.com/images/...v.thumb250.jpg

As you can see in the Island reflection's in the water they are much more pronounced and can make out the colors and details in the reflections. And now you can see some things above the water from underneath the water and visa versa from above to underneath. New water turbulance for the props under the water effects. All new sun and moon rise's and sets with matched up above water reflections and under water reflections vs the angles of the sun and moon's possitions.

Watch these 2 links for updates:

Kriller2's visuals

LeoVampire's Reflection's

looks good! i have two questons/suggestions:

- would it be possible to make things on the surface even more clear (less distorted) when looking from beneath the water surface?

- would it be possible to increase the reflection strength for nearby objects slightly?

when i do stuff like this i normally go by trail and error and see what looks best to me so maybe you two have already tried this and decided it looks weird. in that case forget i said anything :)

Have you ever gone underwater in a pool and looked up at things above the water and see how the angles and view distort's? And in salt water the density is much greater so the effect is even more distorted. If I cleared them up more it wouldn't look realistic at all. Unlike a pool the ocean's density changes with every movment and wave in how you see and percieve objects.

But from above to below it is much easier to see object's because you are outside of the density bubble effect. And as the waves increase and become more turbulant it is much harder to see both above and below.

:up: Looking good. Like the prop turbulence. Guess I'm gonna have to start going back to Droolers Anonymous meetings again:rock:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wave Skipper

whine

lol, thanks for the laugh...

:nope:

Keep it up leo/kril, it think it looks very good, and it gets better every time I come back here.