Well, we Eurosceptics in Scotland have a small problem:

Scottish Nationalists - pro-EU
Scottish Labour - pro-EU
Scottish Conservatives - pro-EU
Scottish Lib-Dems - pro-EU
Scottish Greens - pro-EU

Many of the Independent MSP's are pro-EU as well.

That leaves that oik David Coburn of UKIP (decidedly disliked in Scotland) to lead the "Leave" campaign. I also strongly suspect that Tommy Sheridan will lead a separate socialist alliance anti-EU "Leave" campaign. It's highly doubtful either campaign will co-ordinate their efforts.

Do you trust either of these two?

Coburn:
http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net...jpg?1433247632

Sheridan:
http://socialistpartyni.net/wp-conte...854.jpg?9017eb

It will be very interesting to see if the SNP and SLab will let their MSP's campaign on their own convictions or if they have to rigidly follow the party line. The SCons will let their people campaign as they see fit.

Trying to convince people that there wasn't any vote rigging will be difficult. It's been very interesting to see that a fair few people in Scotland think the Indy-Ref was fixed, even ones who voted No.

I am sick fed up to the back teeth with nationalism, of any kind!!!!:down:

Mike.

What do you think the hardliners in the SNP are trying to do?:/\\!!

Mike.

Most definitely :yep:

On an unrelated topic...

I thank my lucky stars this individual will most likely never be in the position of leader of my country.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...ohammed-Emwazi

It just keeps getting better and better or should I say more worrying and worse...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34830749

I voted Yes as we were promised we'd be thrown out of the EU for doing so. I get two goes. Tee hee.

Yeah, right.....:O:

Three actually, if the vote goes the way I think it will and the SNP actually get another referendum.

Don't be so sure that the membership of Scotland's parties are completely pro-EU, BTW.:03: Given that it's entirely possible that the wheels may come off the EU project altogether, prompted by the individual countries populations, not their leaders, I don't see much utility of nailing my colours to something that might collapse. I know plenty of people who voted yes but can't stand the EU. For them independence means independence, not being shackled to Brussels instead of Westminster.

For them, an independent Scotland outwith the EU is perfectly OK. If such a thing comes to pass, I wouldn't be too unhappy with the situation. Mainly to see what happens when the more fanatical lefty nationalists realise that what the SNP has promised isn't altogether financially tenable given that there wouldn't be any money transfers from down south, or subsidies from the EU. Scotland would have tighten it's belt mightily, which I'm sure all those SLab created socialist drones in the Western Central Belt would hate.

I say good. An independent Scotland will only work if Glasgow and the surrounding areas get off their collective backsides and stop blaming everyone else for their economic misfortune. That includes getting rid of those corrupt sods in Glasgow City Council. If that city is to have any form of proper economic revival it's needs to vote those apparatchiks out in 2017.

As for North Sea oil and gas, it's a red herring, and always has been IMHO. There may be a fair bit left, but it's the cost of getting it out of the ground which is the deciding factor, not what it sells for. If it costs more to extract than it does to sell, it stays in the ground. The rest of the economy needs to be grown massively across the board for independence to win over the financially cautious. The SNP hierarchy know this, I'll give them that. I'm not sure most of the party's new membership do, especially the left wing nutty ones.

Mike.

I agree totally, and also know a number of Yessers who did not want the EU and see independence as a way out of it quickly. The SNP is a spectrum of political views and, upon independence, would split rapidly (at least that is the analysis I have been given). I don't see negotiations on joining the EU then being possible - far more likely, I think, is a Norway-type model of close association without membership.

My personal preference would have been indy, but in a loose Northern/Arctic Alliance (Scand, Iceland, Greenland...) acting as a buffer against the EU extremism. The worst would be indy and still in the EU - what would be the point?

What would be the point indeed. In that case better the devil you know, than the one you don't. We just need to come to a fairer solution than the one everyone in the UK currently has. I'm a federalist, not a unionist (smacks of Northern Ireland and it's "issues", that term), but I can't see the Tories going anywhere near the idea for ideological reasons, at least for now.:hmmm: It would certainly help fix things, anyway.

Anyway, going back to Scotland itself, as I see it, what I think could be at least one driving factor is what might be called the "big trough" factor. Part of the reason Scotland agreed to the union with England was to get direct access to England's colonial territories and the money and trade that they represented. It tried it's own colonial venture at Darien and failed miserably, hence another reason for the union, a financial bail out. For England, the union cured a very big worry - a potentially unfriendly northern land border to be defended in addition to the equally unfriendly French to the south and the unreliable, rebellious Irish to the West.

Perhaps, now that the Empire is gone, it could be said that the UK as it now stands isn't a big enough trough for the Scottish political class to swill from. The EU is. Very, very much so.

Which is very reminiscent of a much, much older Scottish stereotype - the avaricious, greedy Scot which raised it's head after James the VI of Scotland became the James the I of England. The English nobility were not happy at the sudden influx of Scots nobles who came south with him!

Mike.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...73_306x489.jpg
I'm fighting Terrorists all the way?



Where is the money coming from?



http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...p_1762769c.jpg
The poor and needy.

I've met this guy on a number of occasions and always thought he was better than that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34864632

What next?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6738901.html

http://i.imgur.com/bbXg3Bc.jpg
INDEED!!

Well well well, looks who is going to get his own airplane. Yes HagFish Toff boy setting a good example to the rest of us I'm now safe from guns bullets and bombs and the rest of you low life will have to take a chance.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/british-pm...s.html#EfBdIgL

Who is going to foot the bill? The poor and needy again!

Hagfish can poke pigs in private now. :03:

You have to win an election before you get such priviledges....just ask the POTUS.

I doubt Corbyn will ever need a passport.

You one party that is in a right mess, you got another that has become worthless and this lot still banging on about cuts while they wast money on HagFish and his cronies so they can jet all over the place!

I doubt I'll ever be able to forgive Labour and the stupid internal election rules Ed introduced, so making Labour unelectable for many a year to come, thus allowing the Tory Party to do as they like, almost unchallenged.