The EU has given Spain a direct veto right by supporting Spanish claims for Gibraltar. A direct jump-kick by the EU into the UK's genitals. Your hope for a fair outcome already is in ruins, Jim. The EU is set to take as much revenge on impertinent little Britian as it can. Promised. You renitent islanders must be taught a lesson that will echo through history for generations to come: "One does not show the EU to the door!" Nobody on the continent shall ever dare again to follow in your footsteps.

I say give them the rock back after we have blown it up. :03:

I would not mind to hand over such places like Gibraltar and the Falklands, after all they have no geographic connection to the British Fatherland. But: both places have had referendums by the local residents where in case of Gibraltar 98% or 99% of the people said they do not want to fall under Spanish rule or do not want to have shared government by both countries, but want to stay British. Case closed? Not really, 96% of the residents also said they want to stay in the EU last year when beign called to vote on Brexit. Maybe they should immediately have a new referendum or at least a polling of all residents so that we learn whether they want to leave the eU together with the UK, or want to stay in the EU and leave the UK, since this is the choice now. The will of the local residents is the utmost top priority - and every wannabe-landlord who wants to own the place, but does not, has to live with it: in this scenario - and in any other. Same is true for the Falklands. Heck, its not the medieval anymore were feudal castes claimed to own peasants.

As always I only demand that if they split with the UK, they must be able to come up for their bills all by themselves - if they join Spain after a split with London, this is just another new "country" that is a net receiver, and even if the Spaniards pay for their bills, these bills then will again indirectly be financed by the EU. I am strictly against any new members into the EU who do not pay in at least as much as they take out of it, may it be Catalunya, Scotland, wales, Ireland or Gibraltar. No additional net receivers, no matter who it is. Also, this is no issue of written laws. When London claims it can decide whether a Scottish referendum and independence is legitm ate or not, or when Madrid claism it can decide that the referendum in Catalunya is "illegal", they are against most profound human rights, and their claim is invalid and theior constitution criminal in these detailed regards. There is no such thing as slavery, and one poeple owning another. At least there shall be none.

Oh, the irony.:haha:

http://i.imgur.com/M8ofZ4I.jpg

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/...o_be_thatcher/

Nicola Sturgeon: Scotland's revenge for Margaret Thatcher.

Mike.:03:

:haha:

Well we will see. As long as e.g. Gibraltar's inhabitants vote for staying with the UK instead of Spain (which i'd understand :03:), there's not much chance for Spain to get it back.

I have mixed emotions about the coming negotiations, and development of EU and England/UK. The EU is more than an economical union, it is a lot about shared values; and when you have been abroad in the last ten years you will find this feeling and internationalism almost everywhere in the EU. Give and take a few Reichsbuerger or Great leader Farage's UKIP :D
The EU has of course an interest to keep the "rest" (lol) together, on the other hand the more free countries feel within the EU, the more will is there to stay. Any punishing of quitters would have a direct impact on the general perception of the EU, also inside.
There is of course a lot of sabre rattling, the show must go on after all. I think and hope the negotiations will be a lot more neutral and level than what Fox News, The Sun or Bild make of it.

Maybe Nicola Sturgeon is a closet Margaret Thatcher, can't wait till wee Nicola come out saying...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ-M0KEFm9I

Pretty much how I feel and see it :yep:

All wind and pee at the moment Sky....early days and much about what Catfish posted earlier.

Spain would be foolish to annoy one of their greatest sources of income....the British tourist.

Both sides have too much to lose and so much to gain but the latter can only come about if a sensible conclusion/agreement is reached.

Gibraltar voted 60/40 to stay in the EU so we should get shot of that bloody millstone saving the UK some well needed money. :03:

What people overlook is that the EU today is not designed to be a "democracy", that is just facade, it is intentionally designed to be a non-democratic something. A system that allows politicians to reign and rule no mater what people and populations demand and vote for. See the EU constitution - it was denied by three nations' people - and the EU made it a boss issue and decided for it nevertheless - this time behind locked doors. More and more the EU regulates, lectures and paternalistically patronising people en detail in deeper and deeper reaching private parts of their private lives and family lives. It is a re-education and social re-engineering project, to create a new man that gives politicians the kind of "supportive" and servile population that they demand to have.

It is about dictatorship, for the same claimed lies we have hared in the GDR and the Sovjet empire: for peace and brotherhood, antiracism, social conformity, and so on. All the crap list of PC propaganda and socialist wet dreams.

Its not about democracy. Its about a tyrannic reign by the few self-declare elitists and attached monopolistic business lobbies and a cancer-like growing bureaucracy over the rest. The EU has no "democracy deficit", because it is not intended to be democratic anyway. At least not in a different meaning than the Volkskammer in the GDR was a democratic gremium as well. And they have no intention to leave it just to planned economy and planned business and planned money. People's lives increasingly get planned, too. If it continues to move on like in the past 20 years, in one to two generations our children will live in a regime that compares to the political conditions where the Chinese one to two generations ago have been. History loves irony.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39471102

Sounds good, people are working longer and longer and for what? The long term effect of this is health problems which will put a strain on the NHS.

Three-day weekend :o. How do i apply for citizenship?

Regarding strain on the NHS, no problem. Nigel F. alreday said that the money the UK spares from the EU will easily balance that.. or not:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7102831.html
Word should already have spread that the most vocal brexit advocates were not entirely true in their promises. Let alone they all ran away at the day of their triumph. Surely not easy for May as a "remainer" who now has to fulfil the will of the referendum..


@Skybird: Now what is the EU, a dictatorship, or socialist?
Dictatorial socialism. One ruler, but all rule. And black is white.
B.t.w. all politicians or experts (or idiots, yes there are some) sitting in the EU are elected. Just to get those fake news back on the ground again.

Any party that is not in government can promise a new golden age of enjoyment and UKIP is far from being a threat to the Tories with no MP's. As for Labour well they are the main opposition trouble is they are well and truly divided and heading for a landslide wash out at the next general election.

Put your money on the Tories. :03:

Thanks Steed. While i do not really like it maybe the Tories are the best what presently can happen to England, and the UK. If only for the lack of alternatives :hmmm:

We all in the UK know the Tories are swine and they don't hide it, unlike Labour who claim they are the nice party and then something comes to light.:o

http://news.sky.com/story/spain-tell...altar-10823224

I say dump it, after all its full of chavs from what i hear from people who have left the rock and returned back to the UK.

Speaking of Spain:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ies-to-join-eu

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1384635...nd-joining-eu/

Which has been their position all along - if Scotland secedes from the UK with the consent of the British Government then they have no problem with it joining the EU afterwards. If however Scotland does so without Westminster consent, i.e. UDI, then they will block (see Kosovo - Spain still regards that as part of Serbia). They would also block any attempt for Scotland to try retain it's (the UK's) EU membership - it would have to join the queue of countries wishing to join and start from scratch. As for how long such a process would actually take who knows.

Apart from the most blinkered of Nats, pretty much everyone I know knows full well that is the situation facing a potential Independant Scotland.

Now that the Spanish have stated their position I hope it scrubs the "Spain will veto Scotland joining the EU" meme - it never existed in the form that Scotland's detractors said it did.:timeout:

Mike.

Well this is almost the same as what Spain has said all along. Scotland starting from scratch to apply would then take a long while it think.
Then North sea oil fields.. all new negotiations.

Scotland voted for remaining in the UK, but it certainly did so expecting the UK would stay in the EU and taking that for granted. So they in a way voted for the EU.
Is there any chance Scotland could remain in the EU without declaring independence? Frankly I do not see this to be possible, without the UK's members getting more individual freedom.

B.t.w. Since Trump officially and publicly favorises the downfall of the EU, does he also encourage the split-up of the UK already :03:

Sieh Dir den Tweet von @ComedyCentralUK an: https://twitter.com/ComedyCentralUK/...801737217?s=09

I think I need Brain Bleach(tm) after that last bit.....:Kaleun_Sick:

Mike.