Ridiculous generalization about the Italian military.

My post about the Italians in WWII being poorly equipped? I don't mind criticism, what have I got wrong?

The Italians were certainly better equipped than the Abyssinians (bows and arrows) they fought prior to WWII :hmmm:

Ethiopians
Main article: Ethiopian Order of Battle Second Italo-Abyssinian War
With an attack appearing inevitable, Emperor Haile Selassie ordered a general mobilization of the Army of the Ethiopian Empire. His new recruits consisted of around 500,000 men, many of whom were armed with nothing more than spears and bows. Other soldiers carried more modern weapons, including rifles, but many of these were from before 1900 and were badly outdated.
According to Italian estimates,[1] on the eve of hostilities the Ethiopians had an army of 350,000-760,000 men. But only about one-quarter of this army had any kind of military training and the men were armed with 400,000 rifles of every type and in every kind of condition.[13]
In general, the Ethiopian armies were poorly equipped. They had about 200 antiquated pieces of artillery mounted on rigid gun carriages. There were also about 50 light and heavy anti-aircraft guns (20 mm Oerlikons, 75 mm Schneiders, and Vickers). The Ethiopians even had some Ford truck-based armored cars and a small number of Fiat 3000 World War I-era tanks.
The serviceable portion of the Imperial Ethiopian Air Force included three outmoded biplanes.[14] A few transport aircraft were also acquired between 1934 and 1935 for ambulance work. The air force was commanded by a French pilot, Andre Maillet.
The best Ethiopian units were Haile Selassie's "Imperial Guard" (Kebur Zabangna). These troops were well-trained and better equipped than the other Ethiopian troops. But the Imperial Guard wore a distinctive greenish-khaki uniform of the Belgian Army which stood out from the white cotton cloak (shamma) worn by most Ethiopian fighters. Unfortunately for its wearers, the shama proved to be an excellent target.[13] The Ras, the "heads" or the commanders of the Ethiopian armies, ranged from very good to far less than very good.

Italians

Main article: Italian Order of Battle Second Italo-Abyssinian War
In April 1935, the build-up of the Italian Royal Army (Regio Esercito) and the Royal Air Force (Regia Aeronautica) in East Africa started in earnest. In a few months, eight regular, mountain, and blackshirt infantry divisions arrived in Eritrea and four regular infantry divisions arrived in Italian Somaliland. These units alone represented 680,000 soldiers. This number does not include the Italian units already in East Africa, colonial units, or units arriving during the war. For example, there were 400,000 Italian soldiers in Eritrea and 220,000 in Italian Somaliland before the new divisions arrived. The huge army forming up in East Africa also included a great number of logistical and support units.
The equipment for the build-up alone included 6,000 machine guns, 2,000 pieces of artillery, 595 tankettes, and 390 aircraft. Before these arrived, the Italians had 3,300 machine guns, 275 artillery pieces, 200 tankettess, and 205 aircraft. Thanks to the Royal Navy (Regia Marina), the Italians had tons of ammunition, food, and other necessary supplies. The Italians also had motor vehicles to move supplies and troops while the Ethiopians carried supplies in horse drawn carts.[15]
During this campaign the Italians placed considerable reliance on their Royal Corps of Colonial Troops (Regio Corpo Truppe Coloniali) - indigenous regiments recruited from the Italian colonial posessions of Eritrea, Somalia and Libya. The most effective of these Italian officered units were the Eritrean infantry askaris who were often used as advance troops and suffered heavy casualties accordingly. Other RCTC units employed in the invasion of Ethiopia included Somali dubats (irregular frontier troops), Eritrean cavalry (Penne di Falco) and artillery, regular Arab-Somali infantry and artillery, and Libyan infantry [16].
In addition to their own colonial troops from Eritrea, Somalia, and Libya, the Italians had a variety of local semi-independent "allies" who fought for them. In the north, the Azebu Galla were one of several groups induced to fight for the Italians. For many reasons, the Galla were willing to sweep down on the fleeing Ethiopians. In the south, Sultan Olol Diinle commanded a personal army that advanced into the northern Ogaden alongside the forces of Italian Colonel Luigi Frusci. The Sultan was motivated by his desire to take back lands that the Ethiopians had taken from him. The Italian colonial forces even included some Yemenis recruited from across the Gulf of Aden.

It's all relative, man!

Against similarily equipped Greece, the Italians faltered. I think any European nation could have conquered Abyssinia

The Italian invasion of Greece did not fail because of "inferior Italian military" - it failed because it was poorly planned and organized due to Mussolini doing the top decissions over it.

Most of the stuff concerning italians role in WWII is related to 1940-1941 campaigns in North Africa and Greece, but ignores all the rest.

This is one of the many cases of "poorly Italians" showing.

During the Soviet operation on the Eastern Front which eventually led to the German VI. Army being encircled, to the north of the Soviet breakthrough, the Italian Alpini Corps held firm against Soviets attacks - but it didn't matter, because subsequently the Soviets broke through the Hungarian lines to the north of Italians.

The Alpini Corps, then, was surrounded because of breakthroughs to the north and south (Romania lines). However, it managed to break trough the Soviet encirclement; fighting its way out as a coherent fighting unit in a spectacular display of bravery under adverse conditions. Some units, like the Cuneense Division, sacrificed themselves so that other units could break through and escape. It had many similarities to the retreat of the USMC at Chosin Reservoir in the Korean War. Although it suffered horrible casualties from the weather and the Soviets, the Alpini Corps did in fact break through the encirclement still in military order - though it was wrecked as a fighting unit and had to be withdrawn.

The feats of the Alpini Corps, especially the Tridentina Division, were really incredible, as were those of some of the attached units, like the Monte Cervino Ski Battalion and the XXX Assault Engineer Battalion.

Radio Moscow reported: "The only enemy army undefeated around Stalingrad is the Italian Army".

Right, I forgot about the Alpinis. But they were a small force compared to the rest. Italy sent their best troops to the Eastern front, and there they did well. I don't expect any less really, since the Alpini are almost commandos. But what of the regular army?

This thread has gone OT..... :)

yeah, the campaign should have a few playable italian submarines, imagine silent hunter like il2, 300 playable subs!

the subs on my wishlist:
all german, american and other nations during world war 1 subs,
all nations world war 2 subs
and as an easter egg, the turtle and some high tech russian akula and typhoon subs!

also needs secret submarine missions: carrying uranium, blowing up dock facillitys, calling in airraids, using experimental technology like the v2 and artillery rockets, dropping of spies and commandos, (that you get to play as!)

also PROPER SCENERY, i mean WTF was UBI thinking when they released a game with the coastline of sh3??? all jagged! i want cliffs! buildings! destroyable scenery (for airraids)

i hope it has these thinga

How many people do you reckon will have the ultra high level spec rig that will be able to cope with all that? :hmmm:

Or are willing to wait half a decade to do all the research? Not a lot of existing non-German or American WW2 submarines left to photograph and use for interior reference as they did with SH3 and 4. Certainly, no Japanese or Italian ones left besides midget subs that I know of. Yeah, you can work from photographs and blueprints but that takes time and isn't always comprehensive. If they're gonna 3-D render that many subs in an economical manner they better forget about anything but generic interiors.

Either that or do it and pitch the game at a price it won't sell at to try and recover their costs :hmmm:

I've noticed that Keltos who has been working on a Japanese submarine mod, has even with unlimited time, volunteers and the full power of the internet, been having a heck of a time finding decent blueprints of IJN submarines. Now imagine doing that under a deadline and a budget. :cry:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146720

Heh. You wanna talk hogging system resources?

I had a thought the other day. Get a bunch of engineers together on retainer. Take all these blueprints that must still exist of subs and targets (if it's not a sub, it's a target :D). Model the interior structure. Each bulkhead. Each weld. Each bolt. We know the approximate strengths of each item, of each material.

Now, someone out there's gotta have done some research on how WW2 torpedoes explode, how the explosion is shaped, how much force in which directions at which time, etc. Slap that into the sim. Do the same for DC's.

Toss in some basic fluid dynamics.

Oh, yeah... can't forget about fires. Simulate those, too... and how the heat deforms and weakens materials at various temperatures.

Damage Control. Do some research on how much effect DC would have on floods, fires, structural damage. Model it.

Slap all of the above together, and my processor may end up in pool of melted slag... but my dreams display ships actually sinking realistically.

<crawls out from under my rock, scans 360º) It still lives!!?http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...noquestion.gif