SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - MOst REALISTIC MP settings. Your oppinion pls

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- - MOst REALISTIC MP settings. Your oppinion pls (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=87331)

Well this is not really a Duel. I respect OKO as sub driver and I will never offer such statement of killing him in 20 minutes on a sub vs sub.
My proposal is just a demonstration that the FFG is not as "easy" to control than the sub and that with even A TMA you have no advantage above any human manned sub.
So no duel just a practical demonstration :ping:

:) OK Furia I did start my post with a ........ :lol: (better :-j )

My point is that we have a dichotomy and the message has already gone home........ I hope. :ping:

Surely there is a simple setting solution, as above ? :hmm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellman

Surely there is a simple setting solution, as above ?

The players agree on a setting with which both can live before the game. If one of them needs the aTMA for subs (for example) and the other wont allow it, then either they agree on some sort of compromise or simply can't play with each other.

Whatever solution is brought forward here is purely subjective and dependant upon a lot of factors, like playing style, enviroment (a Virtual Fleet for example) and so on. It would be nice to agree on some sort of setting, but I don't think thatll happen.

And I'm not really in favour of the (polite) name calling over some game feature. Yep, the aTMA "cheats" (maybe ...) and for some people this reduces their enjoyment of the game so they turn it off, but please don't force your beliefs on others. Those discussions somehow remind me of religious discussions, done with the same intensity. How bout backing off, saying ... those are the settings I prefer, if you like them - use them. And if not then do your own thing. Yep I have a post somewhere up in this thread and I explicitly stated what I prefer and why but I won't force them on somebody else. I think the only thing we all agree on is the fact that truth should be off in a MP game, everything else is up for keeps IMHO.

Cheers
OS

:D Agreed OS - its no big deal -
''I would be happy to allow the host to place his little cross in the right-hand 'Use Surface TMA Autocrew' box''

The downer is spending ''15 minutes'' on it - but it happens. ;)

I think the BEST GAME comes from matches in which sub drivers are doing Manual TMA and FFG drivers are using Auto TMA.

So that is my preference to play, but like I said, if you use aTMA, at least give me the option not to and let me plot manually.

Quote:

? you must be joking ?
You will have a solution MUCH SOONER IN ANY CASE with aTMA than with manual work.
With manual TMA you need at least 7 LOBs to start to work on it (if you track contact on single array) when the aTMA is able to find you a magically accurate solution after 2 LOBs only.

I never explained right what i was meaning. Yes the aTMA gets solutions quicker and doesnt use the TMA data to get it and so it could be called cheating. But once it gets it and you start to add more contacts then it only updated each contact one at a time. I have seen it taking 10min or more to update some contacts. With Manual TMA you can get the TMA when you need it. Right when your torps are near the target. With aTMA you have to wait till it goes through all the other contacs first. If you have a UUV out and there lots of torps in the water i have seen it taking 20min for a update on a target sub. So you could say manual TMA has a advantage here.
Also for FFG i dont mind the aTMA being used. :roll:

Quote:

So you want something unrealistic ...
I disagree with you on this point, I prefer a LOT a real DEMON with real problems, as the one designed.
It's a simulation JoGary, not an arcade game where you set everything for gameplay purpose.
It's hard to get DEMON in DW because it's hard in a real sub.

I dont know what is realistic or not i was just saying what i would like. Also it may be a simulation but i play it for fun not to train as a sub captain. :hmm: Dont get me wrong if it a choice between realistic or not i will choose the relistic option as long as it still fun. If it was not i wouldnt be playing it and i suspect most people here wouldnt either. Sometimes i think we get too hooked up in realism and forget the main reason we play DW. For Fun. :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoGary(sco)

I dont know what is realistic or not i was just saying what i would like. Also it may be a simulation but i play it for fun not to train as a sub captain. :hmm: Dont get me wrong if it a choice between realistic or not i will choose the relistic option as long as it still fun. If it was not i wouldnt be playing it and i suspect most people here wouldnt either. Sometimes i think we get too hooked up in realism and forget the main reason we play DW. For Fun. :up:

100 % agree with you.

Here is an excerpt of Dangerous Waters Manual. Last pages of the FFG Chapter.

In here Sonalyst clearly states that Autocrew is by far lower than a human player on speed and quality and in some of the station even with A-Crew you are still required to perform task to complete the work.
I have the idea that A-Crew is designed to help the player to carry on with the workload especially on heavy workload maps with multiple threads.
I think all the confusion comes from the definition of Advanced settings or Novice Settings.
I would not accept a game where the host forces me to use A crew with no chance of manually using that station, however I want A crew to take care of the station while I am in other and I feel the manual of Sonalyst clearly goes on the same line.

Quote:

FFG AUTOCREW

Below is a recap of all FFG Autocrew functionality. Remember that your
Autocrew is not 100% infallible. Some crewmen are better than others and
in some cases you may be better at a task than he is. In some stations the
Autocrew does everything for you. At other stations you still have tasks to
perform even when the Autocrew is on. These are noted below.

FFG COUNTERMEASURES AUTOCREW

When ON the Countermeasure (CM) Autocrew launches Chaff and flares.
The FFGâ€™s Countermeasure Autocrew is set via the Autocrew slider in the
upper left corner of the Bridge Station.

Your Task: You can still launch CMs yourself and reload the tubes even
when the Bridge Countermeasure Autocrew is on.

FFG ACOUSTIC AUTOCREW

When the Receiver Mode is set to SHIP and buoys are in the water, the
FFGâ€™s Acoustic Autocrew sets hot buoys to Directional mode and marks
contacts. He can only mark contacts in Directional Mode. He cannot change
the Receiver Mode. On the FFG, buoys can be set to Directional mode only
in Display Windows (Grams) A - D.

Your Task: You must place buoys in the water so the Autocrew has
something to process. Since the Acoustic stations defaults to AIR/SHIP
Receiver Mode and the AIR mode occupies Grams A â€“ D, the Autocrew
cannot mark anything until you first set the Receiver Mode to SHIP.
(Contacts can only be marked in Directional and Active mode.) Omni mode
is used only for detecting and classifying contacts. (You must set DICASS
buoys to Active mode yourself. See Training/Sonar School/Sonobuoys and
FFG Stations/Acoustic Station for information on the display window
requirements for setting buoys to Directional and Active modes.)

FFG EW AUTOCREW

The EW Autocrew marks contacts but does not classify. You are prevented
from doing anything in the EW station when the EW Autocrew is on.

Your Task: You must turn EW Autocrew off to perform any tasks in the EW
station. It is your task to classify contacts by identifying the probable contact
from the list of classes known to carry the detected emitter. See FFG
Stations/FFG EW Station for information on classifying contacts in EW.

FFG LOOKOUT

The FFG Lookout is always ON. You cannot turn OFF this feature. The
lookout reports all visual contacts providing the relative bearing to the
contact and an estimated range. If the contact is close enough he may also
provide a fairly accurate classification. In S.C.S. â€“ Dangerous Waters FFG
lookout reports are sent to the TMA Station to facilitate merging with
passive contacts. This helps clean up the 3D View on the Nav Map.

FFG TMA AUTOCREW

When ON the TMA Autocrew selects contacts for analysis, merges
contacts, determines probable course, range and speed and enters a
solution for the contact.

Your Task: You are prevented from making any inputs when the TMA
Autocrew is ON. You can select the contact to view. You see updates
appear only for the selected contact. If a contact is merged you see updates
from both reporting sensors when the merged contact is selected.

FFG TORPEDO CONTROL AUTOCREW

When ON the Torpedo Control Autocrew enters presets appropriate for the
selected contact.

Your Task: Select the target to attack and the tube to be fired. For Manual
shots you must set both the bearing and the gyro setting. All other presets
are set by the Autocrew and cannot be changed. You may need to alter
Ownshipâ€™s course to ensure a successful shot. You must also ready the
tube, locking in the presets for the selected weapon, and fire it.

FFG TOWED ARRAY AUTOCREW

Towed Array Autocrew marks contacts, assigns ATF Trackers and resolves
bearings in broadband; he also cycles through LOFAR data and classifies
contacts in Single Beam. The FFG Towed array always detects Ownship
because the array is dragged so far behind the ship. In order to conserve
trackers and minimize unnecessary clutter Autocrew does not assign a
tracker to the OS detection.

He will not mark or assign an ATF to the towed arrayâ€™s detection of
Ownship. When Towed Array Autocrew is ON, you can select a beam in
LOFAR for him to examine in Single Beam mode but he may not classify it.
He rotates through all contacts on his own schedule.

Your Task: When the Towed Array Autocrew is ON you need do nothing
more at the Towed Array Station. However, since your Autocrew is not the
speediest, you can mark contacts and assign ATFâ€™s yourself. At a later time
the Autocrew may reassign your ATFs to another contact if the array is
detecting many contacts. Be aware that the Autocrew is not the best or the
quickest at classification. The Profile Filter is always ON and disabled when
Autocrew is ON. You can select any class in an available profile list and
apply it yourself.

I just want to say that OKO's settings are *perfect.* We obviously share the same philosophy about autocrew: that the trivial, mechanical tasks that some E-3 fresh out of A-school can do for us should be done by autocrew, but the stations requiring careful use and judgment should be done by the player.

I do have sympathy for the bitch of a TMA station the FFG drivers have, so I'm often willing to "compromise my principles" and live with FFG aTMA. When you've got a station that limits the range by the size of the "paper," forcing them to do manual is a bit cruel.

Oh, and Quick Launch is a BIG no-no. We (the mission designers) can start you off airborne, alert 5, alert 15, alert 30, or limp dicked; if we wanted a helo up quick in that mission we would have made effect to do so. Don't mess with us. :stare: :P

Almost too bad the mission maker cannot enforce a few options, but that's probably just as well.

What they can do, is give their recommendations in the mission description... Which is a rare thing.

Almost as rare as environmental conditions, such as operation area depths etc.

Forgive me for not having thoroughly read each and every post in this thread (which i will do) but I've been wanting to ask this question for a long time. If (as most of us including me contend) the "Otto" crew can't hold a candle to an experienced "manual" player, why then don't we leave it up to the player to decide what Otto handles and what the human handles?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driftwood

Please tell me you're talking about things like sonar and NOT TMA?! :doh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaHuJa

Mine include the conditions and depths. :up: But not settings, so let me just be absolutely clear:

Don't play my missions quick with launch on! If you do, I'll sell your children's organs to zoos for meat, and break into your houses at night and wreck up the place!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driftwood

Please tell me you're talking about things like sonar and NOT TMA?! :doh:

Don't worry ML, I'm referring to pretty much everything except aTMA. :up: