Do you want just a modified stock Menu.ini? It will not work with other mods that change it. It can always be added in. There is 17 entries that have to be changed.

I found a cheap way to make the comparment name to be displayed again. I made a darker crew screen mod to make it not so bright for night time attacks. All I have to do is just 'type in' the letter names onto this background crew screen in the correct spot Backpap2.tga. The the name of the comparment will show.

But that means you wil have to use my modified background crew screen. Alot of peole like it. I would rather do it with my shaded back ground. I can make one for the original.

I need some input on this matter. I realy prefe a darker background. What should I do? Make two of them? What do you want to call that stern quarter "Captains Motiviation" or something more like "Captains Quarters" ???

This is all I have to do and I will have a finished mod to go with your work.

1) stock menu.ini
2) stock crew managment screen, or a darker version?
3) a decent name for the Stern Quarters. Maybe Officors Quarters? ( Captains Quarters would mean only one bed.)

The officors beds are probably more luxury and thus more enjoy.

Is there absolutely no other way to get the text to show up while still being able to disable the double-click function?

By removing the instant button features, I can control the damage system much better.

As it is now, I could rush men into repair and they will get the penalty I want them to recieve. This makes repair and flooding much more intense (that is when I have fully tweaked compartment strenghs etc as described above).

Now if I did double click the repair option whilst men are in it, fresh men take over and do not get hit by the penalty.

This happens in other compartments also.

So when this is disabled the player is forced to go by the rules of play.



Just a quick not. The rest quarters do take longer to fix because only the repair crew can fix then 2 stations. In other compartments you get assisted by the men in there.


I was going to base much of the flooding in those compartments as this is what we want. i.e. more intense flooding and slower deaths.

So heres the plan,

I reduce other compartments HP so more sub system damge may occur. I then have to rebalance floatability.

I then look at the crew quarters as being slightly more prone to flooding i.e. I tweak critical-flotation (seems to do the trick).

I may have to reduce floatability so we sink but not too fast as I have had 9min flood recovery in some tests.

Hope people a following this as it is the way to go for more intense damage.

I have not yet adjusted this for releae yet but now that jungman has found a way so we cannot really cheat, it should be good feature.

Oh yeh, it will be good.

p.s. I was going to use the rest quarters as the father of many subsystems from other rooms. This might, just might make repairs take much longer in the whole if my theory is correct.

Ok, thanks for the information.

Yes Yes Yes

Right then down to business.

1. If you could do one that is RUB 1.44 compatible at the moment so I can test on my end that would be great. We have to wrap this up in test before making other mod compatible versions but once this is right, it should be a simple case of deciding what versions are wanted most. I do not know what the following of the community is like today (been away).

2.Darker because we will be looking at this screen much more now instead of emergencies only. Dark for me anyway.

3. Officers quarters (yes I like that)

Cheers matey :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

So aside from the double-click issue that is currently being worked on, how close are you to releasing the real version?

Just a few more tweeks?... or a lot more?

Well, A little french would like to give you his opinion :lol:

Are you ready? Ok let's go :P

This mod is a great work on the damage managment, it's really. For that I like it .

But (bacause there is a but :) )

Why do you not work with Kaa for the fatigue model ?
I said it, I love the fatigue model of Kaa because it seem more realist. In fact, after many days on the sea, I think that crews are many tired, and sleeping is not sufficiant because there is a great stress (due to the war, the distance from home and the life in a little boat with many people).
For me, it's more important to talk about stress than about fatigue and it's not realist to drag the crew to sleeping when are tired. On the other side, It's logical to back home with all crew tired ou very tired.
Crews are also importante as fuel and we must decide a road after many questions. Are the crew capables to support this new road, have I enough fuel to finish my mission ...?
Kaa has a great idea and i would like a mixing between your damage managment and the faitigue system of Kaa.

I hope you have understood my text. (Grrrr, my english :x )
It's my opinion and only my opinion. But I've made some missions with the modele of Kaa and i Promise you, that is stressfull to see crews more and more tired day after day.

Hi Lumat

I hear what your saying and Kaa's discovery was vital in this mod. None of this would have been possible without him and he will get a major credit in the readme.

This is how I see it.

1. I wanted to manage my crew (not every minute but I do want to have a inffluence on boat performance and a feel of management.)

A 24 hrs system is my first base as I can still travel quite far before having to pander the crew.) If at a later date we decide to lenghen this by a majority vote, I am fine by that. I will probably stick to a 24 - 36 hrs max though as my personal preference.

2. For longer damage repairs to occur it is a requirement to decrease the overall efficiency of the repair team hence the penalty set when a crew memeber goes into that room. Now after discovering that the crew resting compartments will only be repaired by a repair crew and not the men resting in the compartments, this opens up a lot of possibilities for the flooding and damge changes that I want to attempt to get.

For this to work I believe IMHO, the player must be given a chance to recoup his men. Why? Well because it could be in week one when the sub is attacked. It may be a flooding incident however the crew manage to repair and the U-boat is still good enough to continue mission. Why should I then go on to sail the next 3 weeks with crew at rock bottom energy levels/organization?

Its not that I don't like what Kaa is doing because I do. Its just that I find it hard to balance his system with the new damage changes I am trying to achieve.

I will be sharing all changes on this work so people like Kaa and others can tweak their games and mods to their play style. Kaa may see something I don’t and be able to balance the new damage with his mod

Lets just get the damage right and then we can talk about what we feel would be the best fatigue system. I personally think we can make different versions to please the majority but I will need to get one right first.

I don’t want to go down the lines of making this mod the only mod with the new damage changes. I want all versions of fatigue models to benefit from the damage changes.

Its just that this long term fatigue issue does not allow a recoup option and this would make players think that I am being too severe in setting a repair penalty.

Maybe Kaa could still set a penalty for repair crew but allow recoup over a longer period i.e. 1-2 weeks to get men back in ship shape order but I don’t think he wants that system and if he does not want it he should not be forced to think on my lines. When I have done this I am going to have a good look at Kaas work and see if I can help out, but that’s after this is finished as people are waiting for this now. (my mate over the road is actually knocking on my door everyday to see if I am done :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: )

If he tries to set it without giving players a chance to recoup, I suspect a lot of explaining will be required. I do however think it may be possible for him to get the flooding benefits.


One suggestion would be for Kaa to look at zones.cfg and play with flooding in the rest quarters both bow and stern. His repair team may still work fast as in standard game but he could set a better flooding system that causes the sinking effect and possible much more sever rate of flooding in these compartments.

Its all about testing really.


I am now going to work on this and hopefully it’s just a matter of wrapping it all up and writing a fully explanatory read me guide.

marhkimov

So aside from the double-click issue that is currently being worked on, how close are you to releasing the real version?

Just a few more tweaks? or a lot more?

I think we are close mate. :yep:

I think damage can be improved tonight due to your excellent observations.

Maybe its time to just doing a few test in campaign mode to see if the fatigue times are pretty much based within a 24hr system.

Would also need to test how fast crew are affected in bad weather, and if bad weather under water does anything.

When I have done this and Jungman has finished his screen changes etc.

we can pack it and share with the community.

I will then start to look at people’s preferences with regards to how often they want to check in on their men whilst sailing. I may just post the changes needed to say sail for a week etc.

This should then give more people the ability to benefit from the damage model I am creating.

Hell I have just realised that people don’t play RUB so will have to create one for those as well. (I will dig up a older hollywood damge that was based on vanilla game and then just tweak accordingly.)

So I am getting back to work now.

marhkimov

I loved the way you use pictures and describe the workings. It would be great if I could give you a explanation of the features and you could then do a promotion readme thread that can also act as a guide. You know pictures etc.

I could do one but it all takes time of which I will be very limited due to continuing work on other model compatible versions and maybe a random set that could be incorporated later.

Excellent work, and it's a shame I can't keep up with it for a bit -

I'll wait out the first beta round for now, I think, and hook up when you have some of the initial things hammered out - I should have time to play SHIII more extensively by then.

Keep it up - alert me when the 2nd version rolls out :)

In real life, what would happen in a hypothetical situation such as this?

It is 1944. A type IXC u-boat sneaks into a HK group, composed of one fleet carrier and 5 'veteran' DD's. The u-boat then sinks the carrier, and attempts to silently run away. It goes down to about 120m, but one of the DD's manages to locate the rouge sub. The other 4 DD's are still about 4-5 minutes away. So for now, all by it's lonesome self, the DD goes on a few attack runs. It drops hedgehogs and DC's. Should the lone DD be able to win, or should the u-boat be able to escape? (remember, this is a real-life hypothetical question)


Now, compare that situation with what happened to me in a test mission (btw, I was using gouldjg's beta damage mod):

The mission happens exactly as described above, but as it turns out, the DD wins and the u-boat loses. The depth charges felt like 2000lb bunker busters... There was no flooding in this test; I simply lost too much hull integrity. It wasn't the actual DC's that killed me; since I was at 120m, it was the pressure. Is this realistic? Maybe I'll test it again, but if I am located, I'm not so sure that I will be able to escape. The flood control is modelled just fine, but this time flooding was not the issue. Different issue, but perhaps the effect of DC's on the u-boat hull is too effective?

gouldjg, if you want to test this for yourself, try running the U-505 mission and see if you can escape in one piece (I used my own edited version of the "U-505" single mission. I changed a few things, most notably I made all of the DD's veteran). Even if you are running silent and deep, the DC's may prove to be too much to handle... Im not sure you can do anything to fix this problem, though... Zones.cfg maybe?



***And OT, but hedgehogs really suck ASS. They do almost no damage to the u-boat and subsequent systems... Was that how it was in real life too? I heard that one of those little 'bomblets' was not powerful enough to destroy a u-boat... But c'mon, were they really as bad as SH3 portrays?




Sure, once it's released, I'd love to do some sort of promotional thread. This mod was something I've always wanted from the get-go but I just didn't want to spend hours at a time doing boring ol' number tweeks. But since you went ahead and did that 'stuff' for me, I thought I might help... Even just a little bit... :yep:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I have just been trying 505 mission with new changes.

Well after catching the hedgehogs on bad angles i.e. I get 4 hedgehog strikes all at once. I was dead as a duck :rotfl: .

I reloaded and tried again, Funny I get 3 HH hits agian and again Dead as a duck :rotfl: . Obviously if this was real life I would have tried to escape and not lined myself up for his attack by listening to his everymove.

Anyway I tried for a third time and just sail staright on crasg dive settings.

1 HH hit and damge is fair in my eyes.

Now onto the DC issues. As I have RUB installed i know all this stuff has been modified to be more realistic and in some cases lethal.

The hull integrity set in this game is a limit on what we can do as far as the damage instant death. It sometimes cheeses me off.

However heres some good news

I was right about the crew compartments and flooding. It is possible to get a long drawn out leak in those areas.

So I am just sorting that long flooding death out then we can look at other issues.

I will report back in a moment as I have just got an idea.

CCIP I will let you know when this should be ready.

I know it doesn't really matter what we call these crew ratings, but I'll make a few sugestions/requests anyways.


In default SH3, it is called 'Morale.' I move to change it to 'Confidence.'

In default SH3, it is called 'Endurance.' I move to change it to 'Morale.'
I do like Morale much better than organization.

Two more tests on the same U-505 mission...

Two more times murdered... :roll:

I don't think escape is a possibility, even if you try really really hard...

Perhaps the Rub depth charges are too powerful.
what about using the deffault game settings ?? :88)

RUb charges are reduced compared to default.
:hmm:

I think we could hope for slightly less lethal DC for gameplay. Whats everyones opinion on this?

I am not upto scratch on Dc strengh etc. Has the power been upped lately.

But then again, are the DD's still very accurate in this RUB.

I can usually slip DDs on 505 but thats only because of decoys.

I can really understand the stress of those men who had to endure 11 bloody hours of it.

One thing is now for sure, If I was in campaighn mode I would be bloody more careful when lining up for a attack and even skip a few if I thought I was going to have a hard time after.


Am i to take it that you are now trying to get away or you feel that the sub is too weak?.

What is the best move we can take considering we cannot interfere with Hull integrity.

I find that pressure is killing me more than anything else.

Could we not alter the crush depths so that the game lets us dive to 500 ft before crushing. This lets me start a slow decend into the murcky depths even with damage. I will not really take pressure damge till much deeper. If I was on shallow water I would hit bottom just like in Das and maybe just maybe do my repairs and get back up.

The good side of it would be that we could take much more damage but the bad side is the fact that there is then nothing to stop us from cheating and playing at that depth.


Unless the actual needle on the Depth control can stop us from abusing depth.


Lets say it does. I would vote for a weaker crush depth system so we could let the sub take lots of damage. We carry on taking on water instead of just listening to those bloody pops that hardly let us pull up.

Is this possible? It may improve things further or at least drag the innevitable out longer.

Timetraveller done work in this area did he not

BTW, I am using timetaveller's crush depth values. Using my own "realistic" values, my TypeIX u-boats are set to crush from anywhere in between 210 and 260m...


Yes, I am dying because of pressure... For a third test, I sank the HMS Coouragous and tried really really hard to get away. I went down to 200m and the DD's still found me with no trouble at all. It started raining DC's and one lucky shot brought me down to 64%. After that, it was an agonizing crush to death.

For the test, I reinstalled RUb depth charge settings and A.I. sensors (from RUb 1.44.7z), but to no avail... They have not been altered for a long time...


U-BOAT IS TOO WEAK! OR DC'S ARE TOO STRONG! OR DD'S ARE CRAZY GOOD!


I guess as u-boat captains, we have to be careful, but it shouldn't be 100% suicide whenever we encounter 'veteran' DD's.



I'm not so sure that I would like for us to be able to sink all the way down to 500m...

True.



So why can't we just add a little more HP or armor to our u-boats? Either that or Jungman could stop by and help us out by coming up with some less effective 'A.I. sensor' and 'depth charge' values?

If we got less effective DC then the sub flooding will not kick in ttill we got direct hits. Everything will start to look stupid froman external point of view.

I feel the DC are fine at current setting. Maybe a tad too good at aiming and deph correcion but I can usually go for hours when I play 100% concentration and use the rule book of evasion.

I do however feel that you are correct about HP of sub hull integrity. If this was ever solved everyone would play this game till the cows come home. It is this death thing that drove many players away.

Now I suggested increasing depth limits with timetravellers tool.

I am not for one minute suggesting that we should all be able to cruise at 500 metres. But for me, here goes the following idea.

Our depth gauges prevent us from going to stupid depths.

If we time the first creaking sound effect to sound worse and have big hints we are in trouble then I am fine with it.

I am well disciplined to stick by the rules of travelling at certain depths. I will not be putting my needle to the 300 mtr and take the mick out of the system.

However when I get low hull, i will not just break up over seconds. I am hoping my sub will start breaking up at 200 mtres +. It should never get beyond 300 metres cos the hull damage has already seen to that.

I am just going to test and will report back.

Bye the way I am getting pretty good results now even without this feature. The only thing is that I cannot really see any other way of influncing the hull pressure death screen.

:( i got exactly the same problems as marhkimov,except i played THE XXI mission exactly the same outcome as marhkimov said it is a quick death down there at 120 metres it could well be with the hull pressure and the dc's they do fell like bunker busters , iwas wondering that if the hull intgrity degrades from 100% to zero in 1.4b when you reach crush depth ,is there a way of restoreing it as the sub is repaired or when it surfaces as it is a pain anyway we just aswell have it working for us as against us, then it would not matter so much if we had it displayed or not BTW i was getting too grips with the damage control and the flooding it felt very realistic ,but it seems the destroyer gets you on his next pass even at all stop "rig for for silent runnin " on ,i have even been destroyed tryin too sit it out on the bottom at all stop , but this is a big plus because the flooding is slow you can wait it out a bit :hmm: no wonder they call em destoyers they are pretty vicous and a bit too accurate for my likeing :know: i remmember @ gouldjg you did reduce the dc's velocity from 50 feet too the more realitic range of 15 feet (or was it metres im not sure)
:up: i personally would like more sustained dc attacks with less damage as you said the uboats were depth charged for up too eleven hours :rock: now that would be summit to write home about :|\ BTW the flooding damage is just perfect too as i said before i would like to see more flashing lights and pipes bursting when being dc'ed :yep: but what i really want is a fully interactive subsim of the das boot movie with all the video scenes :rotfl: whoops im day dreaming again wakey wakey

If we add more u-boat 'armor' or 'HP' to zones.cfg, will that make any difference?

I would test it myself, but I'm not going to be home until later tonight. Anyways, just a thought.

If someone does decide to test it, lets hear the pros and cons...


*I long for the day that we can have 11 hour depth charge attacks... :hmm:
After 3 consecutive tests in 1944, my average DC attacks lasts from 5 to 10 minutes...
2 crushes, 1 ka-BOOM, and a whole lotta' hurtin!'
OUCH! :o