great link, had an interesting time reading it and I didn't know that the tandem screws weren't contra-rotating.

I agree with you that Victor II is probably the Soviet equivalent to the USS Jack, which trialed contra-roatating screws for the USN (somewhat unsuccessfully due to the weight of her direct drive sapping most of the efficiency, but she did keep the setup for her whole service life).

Papa would have JUST been launched in December of 68 and had a hell of a test process to go through (didn't commission until December 69). The Papa and the Alfa after it were way more anti-carrier platforms than anything else but I don't think there was a torpedo in existence that could catch the Papa in that time period.

Mike, being titanium is sort of a different ball of wax than the Akula and sort of like an Alfa successor in terms of automation and design concepts. Out of all the titanium boats the Mike was the first one that was really stressed for deep diving, and while I don't think she had any problems there, its my understanding the conclusion that was reached was that there wasn't as much value as you would think to diving that deep. I mean it likely could escape some / most / all-non nuclear weapons of the day but it wasn't any more stealthy (hit 3000ft. and then disappear) so basically not worth the trouble vs. how hard it was to construct a boat that could dive that deep.

it's propaganda.

671rtm MUCH less noisy, a little more than 688.

971 Akula was less noisy then 688 Fl.0

And Skipjack noiselevel was about 150dB
according to Tom Stefanick data 1987

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Consider that Americans tend to overstate the secret characteristics and the Russians on the contrary are understated.

Ships don't emit constant levels of sound across their speeds, though, so what does "a Skipjack makes 150 dB of noise" really mean? It's a very simplified graphic, and as the axes don't have units, should be interpreted as such. A graphic like this can't show that diesels are quieter at low speeds but louder at high speeds than a nuke boat.

The Mike's basically where you see the transition between the Sierra and the Akula, it's worth including for the novelty alone I think. Fair point on the Papa though, I didn't catch that it just misses the bus on 1968. Maybe 1984, a la RSR? :v

Somewhat related: while looking for what sonar the Mike had (Shark Gill, same as the other attack boats of that era), I found this: https://translate.google.com/transla...oruzhenie.html Supposedly, it's the Russian perspective on the effectiveness of their sonars and the acoustic performance of American submarines. Given the Russian interest in selling submarines, take it with a grain of salt, but still interesting.

In version 1.02 of the mod I have adjusted the noise levels of all units (subs and surface units) based on the noise level settings used in Dangerous Waters Lwami mod.

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ForumsTerrorist!:Kaleun_Salute:

Mike was not testbed for Akula class. It is first very deep diving submarine. After would be start more submarines, but USSR collapse and more submarines not building. It is submarine project 685. Main feature is very very big deep diving. Operational depth is 1027 meters or 3369 feet, safe depth is 1250 meters or 4101 feet and crush depth 1400 meters or 4593 feet. Mike was titanian submarine with very large depth for torpedo firing is 800 meters or 2624 feet. But in it depth can use USET-80 torpedoes. Depth USET-80 torpedoes was projected for launch from very depth submarine like "K-278" project 685. Project operational depth for submarine was 1000 meters and USET-80 have depth 1000 meters like.
During building "K-278" was testing in depth 1600 meters. Every compatment testing in this depth and after it submarine building.
In depth 800 meters and more submarine can not finding anti-submarine sensors so was below few thermal layers. In this depth was not cavitation or other hydrodynamic sounds. Submarine can have full speed without rise sound level.
Have superstels speed so have 2 electric motors and can speed 5 knots in electric motors in very large depth.
During 1980 years in world was not anti-submarine weapons what can hit "K-278" in open ocean. Soviet torpedo "USET-80" was deep diving in world and have 1000 meters.
It was ideal submarine in this time...

Seconded the Mike is no prototype it is a completely stand alone class of vessel like the Project 661 Anchar or Papa class (which is pretty much a titanium hulled Charlie class in looks)

Project 685 Plavnik Mike class still holds the world record for deepest diving military submarine

as for linar succession the Project 671 RTK or Victor III were Succeeded by the Akula Project 971

As for the deeper you go sound still travels like the jet stream there is a thermal layer called the deep sound channel which was discovered by Dr Robert Ballard from Woodshole Oceanographic reasearch Laboratory.

Mike submarine (or project 685) was first very deep diving submarine with more then 1000 meters. After it must be go project 954 with diving depth 1400 meters (operational), but USSR collapse and no one submarine project 954 was not building.

In large depth have few thermal layers and few sound channels. But USA not know about so have not submarine with large depth diving.

The deep sound channel was a test conducted of the west coast of Australia where a series of charges were let off in a certain sequence they rounded the Cape horn and were detected 6 hours later in the Bermuda listening station by SOSUS.

SOSUS led to the finding of USS Scorpion it also led the USN and CIA to K129 in the pacific with Project Jennifer and Azorian, SOSUS also tracked the 4 foxtrot submarines heading to Cuba in 1962 plus the two other November class submarines sent from the Med, and this is all from sea floor microphones.

However in Operation Atrina in the 80's the Americans did have serious issues finding the 5 victor III sent out from the Northern Flota 4 were found after 8 days while they were on thier way home after completing thier tasks.

The 5th under the command of captain 1st rank Victor Alikov (dubbed by the west as the prince of darkness) was never discovered

Mod updated to ver 1.03

- Reduced height of ownship icon on Condition display. Now bottom of ownship indicates depth of your boat
- Fixed problem with Charlie 1 and Charlie 2 damage control panels not showing
- Added missions to locate and sink Carrier group in both 1984 and 1968 campaigns

link at first page of thread

So after getting ripped apart by ASROC delivered Mark 46s for the 5th or so time, I took a peep in the weapons.txt since it felt like my usual torpedo dodging tactics weren't working. There's only one, and it has a seeker range of 2000 yards. This seems a little generous for 1984 (http://www.navysite.de/weapons/mk-46.htm has the Mod 5 at 1600 yards seeker range) but it's crazy for the 68 campaign (the Mod 1 that would have seen duty in 68 has a seeker range of 460 meters, or ~503 yards according to http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsyste...20Mk%2046.html).

Take those sources with the usual grain of salt, but 500 yards feels much more in line with general torpedo seeker capabilities in the 1960s.

Thanks, will update to day (I hope)

ver 1.03a hotfix

- created distinct models for early ASROC, firing Mk46 mod1 torpedoes and late ASROC, firing Mk46 mod5 torpedoes
- early ASROC associated to Farragut, Garcia and Charles F. Adams class destroyers, late ASROC associated to Spruance and Knox class escorts
- created late Essex class ASW carrier model for 1984 campaign, identical to Essex class ASW carrier but equipped with SH-60 helicopters instead of SH-3D
- adjusted warhead weight of light weight torpedoes.It will require more hits from Mk46, Mk50 and UGMT-1 to kill a submarine. Adjusted warhead weight of Soviet torpedoes and missiles

http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment....609&download=1

According to this American chart 1987, the noise level of Skipjack was in the range of 150-172 dB.
Permit is from 137 dB.
- 133 db. (Later reduced to 129 dB)

Old diesel subs (613, 641) from 127 dB (138 full speed). Kilo - 115 dB.
Sierra - 115 dB.
Alfa full speed - 165 dB (so on 5 knot must 129 db, surprize)

In general, it is clear that the developers adhered to this data, but apparently the skipjack came out completely unplayable

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sorry bad english

And to be honest the estimates of self noise tend to have relatively high spread between different sources.
I don't know at what speeds the 1987 chart indicates the self noise. Other published work, especially on SSBN tend to predict much lower noise. For example Yankee in 1987 chart is predicted 150 db at speed unknown. Paper below predicts 135-140 at 4kts.
On older boats difference in prediction seems larger. Hotel for example in 1987 chart is predicted 160-170 db, paper below predicts 140-145 at 4 kts.
https://fas.org/spp/eprint/snf03221.htm

Absolute values have no differences for game purpose.
We need to display the relative noise in the game conventions more correctly

This diagram of topics is interesting because it correlates both American and Soviet boats.
Whereas in different studies data are usually given either for some or the other, while it is not known in what specific conditions.

If you are familiar with dangerous waters, I took a look at the units database, specifically the Lwami mod database (since it had more units compared to original dangerous waters and had become widely used). I based the reworked self noise values in the soviet campaign mod on this.
In particular, the DW selfnoise value multiplied by 2 should pretty much correspond to CW selfnoise. What is different is that in DW each unit can have a noise increase/speed, whereas in CW all enemy units have same noise increase/speed.

How did you make such correlation from the chart? Do you substract speed from the max noise level? 165-41+5=129? And so does the game?

I think the 1 db per knot is the parameter called targetnoiseperknot un config file

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